Road rules

[twinturboboy]

Ok well - the other day I was driving around in my GTB, which at the time had no Reg or WOF, I had taken the car for a WOF but it failed for tyres and an exhaust leak - so I drove the car to Richmond Radiator & Exhausts - In Nelson to get this fixed, on the way a cop pulls me up and gives me a $300 ticket for having no REG or WOF.

I forgot to show him the warrant sheet and tell him that I was going to the exhaust shop to get it fixed.

I then wrote to the police and provided them evidence that I was going to the exhaust shop at the time and that the car was within the days of a WOF recheck - they wrote back saying I was required to get the car transported or towed to the mechanic.

Can anyone say that they have heard of this regulation?

I looked it up on VTNZ and Legislation.govt.nz and found that what the police say is total crud, why would they say this if it wasn\'t true?

[nztintin]

no wof means car is not roadworthy so not allowed to drive it, not even allowed to tow it depending on what it failed a wof on (ie bald tyres)

some cops will give you compliance which means if you can get a wof in the next 7 days they let you off but i think it is up to the cop at the time.

the wof recheck time is just the time you are allowed to go back to the shop to get it checked without having to re-pay for a wof check, nothing to do with being allowed to drive it. Even before your wof ran out your car would have been technically illegal with bald tyres and an exhaust leak.

maybe if you had a rego the cop may have been a little more lenient, looks like you learnt the lesson the hard way.

[funkytown]

wut.. was my understanding you could drive the car to the place of cert / wof or repairs

[twinturboboy]

Yes you are legally alowed to drive it if you are going to and from garages or WOF stations - see below

What if my vehicle fails a WoF inspection?

If your vehicle fails a WoF inspection and your old WoF has expired, you are not allowed to drive it on the road unless it is being operated solely for the purpose of obtaining a new WoF. This includes driving it to and from a garage in order to have the necessary repairs carried out. If you fix all the items that require attention within 28 days the vehicle will be re-inspected by the same WoF agent at no extra charge. If you exceed the 28 days from the initial inspection, a new fee and inspection is required.

Note: This is a legal requirement.

Source - http://www.vtnz.co.nz/FAQs

[nztintin]

I\'ve been done before with a expired wof on the way to the garage to get the new wof issued, cop gave me compliance as i said above, i got the wof and went straight to the police station and got off the ticket

are you sure your ticket wasn\'t for having no rego?

[DRFVDR]

 twinturboboy said:

Yes you are legally alowed to drive it if you are going to and from garages or WOF stations - see below

What if my vehicle fails a WoF inspection?

If your vehicle fails a WoF inspection and your old WoF has expired, you are not allowed to drive it on the road unless it is being operated solely for the purpose of obtaining a new WoF. This includes driving it to and from a garage in order to have the necessary repairs carried out. If you fix all the items that require attention within 28 days the vehicle will be re-inspected by the same WoF agent at no extra charge. If you exceed the 28 days from the initial inspection, a new fee and inspection is required.

Note: This is a legal requirement.

Source - http://www.vtnz.co.nz/FAQs

Source =VTNZ i doubt i would rely on them to be honest

Taken from the NZTA website

It\'s illegal to drive a vehicle…

If it doesn\'t meet WoF requirements.

If it doesn\'t display a valid WoF label.

"You can drive your vehicle on the road under these circumstances only when taking it somewhere for repair or to get a new WoF – and it\'s safe to do so."

failure on tires I would deem it not being "Safe to do so "

[Guest]

Cant get a reg with no wof...

[boon]

It\'s a grey area since you failed for tyres... although you could probably argue it was still safe to do so. Burden of proof is upon the Police to prove your car was unsafe, I think they are unlikely to achieve that (particularly given that you didn\'t show them the WoF sheet)

Relevant law, as follows:

The Land Transport (Motor Vehicle Registration and Licensing) Regulations 2011, section (4), subsection (a), which states:

In proceedings for an offence against subclause (1) or (2) that relates to an unlicensed motor vehicle, it is a defence if the defendant proves that—

(a) the motor vehicle was only operated on a road while being taken directly to a place of, and for the purpose of, inspection, servicing, repair, or obtaining evidence of vehicle inspection

further to this;

Clause 10.2(2) of the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002 which states:

10.2(2) Despite 10.2(1), a person may operate a vehicle in service after the expiry of a warrant of fitness, a certificate of fitness or an alternative fuel inspection certificate if the vehicle is being operated solely for the purpose of bringing it into compliance and it is safe to be operated for that purpose.

and additionally, from the Land Transport Act 1998, Interpretation, for the definition of \'operate\':

operate, in relation to a vehicle, means to drive or use the vehicle on a road, or to cause or permit the vehicle to be on a road or to be driven on a road, whether or not the person is present with the vehicle; and operator has a corresponding meaning

Relevant case law is Dawson v Police, in the High Court at Wellington, dated 9 June 2010, where it was held that:

Mr Dawson appealed those findings to this Court and in my judgment of 27 April 2009 I upheld Mr Dawson\'s appeal against the Justices\' finding that the infringement notices had been proved as regards the offences of operating a vehicle without displaying current evidence of inspection and using an unlicensed motor vehicle. I did so by reference to Regulation 3A of the Transport (Vehicle Registration and Licensing Regulations 1994) and clause 10.2(2) of the Land Transport Rule: Vehicle Standards Compliance 2002. In essence, the fact that Mr Dawson was only operating the vehicle for the purposes of obtaining a warrant of fitness provided his defence.

Edit: If you write to the Police again, politely suggesting that they may be mistaken in their claim that the car must be towed/transported, and you cite the above (you can probably skip the part about the definition of Operate, that\'s more for fighting parking tickets) there\'s a pretty good chance they\'ll put it in the \'too hard\' basket and waive it.

DISCLAIMER: I\'m not a lawyer.

[twinturboboy]

 B-MAGIC said:

fight it in court... I am atm, similar case to this. I got fined $180 but I wont let them get away with it.

Its just not worth it for the costs of court costs - and having time off work you may as well just pay it

[boon]

 B-MAGIC said:

if you dont do ANYTHING then ... they will continue to harass you... If you are right take it further. Win or loose take them to court. trust me. police get angry when you take them to court because your summoning them to court and they have to appear. plead not guilty. if everyone gets fined like this and dont do anything then they will continue to do what their doing etc.

Even if it does cost money, it shows that your serious with a lesser chance they will pick on you again, it will be in the system.

Everytime you get pulled over, get your book out, ask for their badge number, where theyre based, and time and date, if you have so many in a year you can prove to the court your getting victimised.

I know im going abit far... but thats just what you gotta do to stop police fining us for dumb reasons.

Ahem. It\'s them summoning you to court, not the other way around. But generally, yes, they\'ll be pissed at having to spend time coming down to deal with it. Especially if you insist on questioning the issuing officer.

Bearing this in mind, judges don\'t like having their time wasted, so you better have a damn good reason for being there or they\'ll throw the book at you. And make you pay costs. And the victim fund thing.

[subieboy]

Jesus Talk it up B-Magic... WOTT

A few things about what police officers do when they pull you over:

They check the system incar to see what is going on with your car. Also they now have ANPR systems onboard in some cars that give them that info automatically... Google NZ Police & ANPR for roll out info

They will then automatically look at your car if a Rego/WOF issue is found, i.e. they will log things like bald tyres, windows, etc (generally write in their little books and then the \'incident\' report of why they gave you the ticket with specific details...

They do a few other things at the same time but the above should be enough to show that what you are saying in real life is not that flash

Having no rego, no WOF and Bald tyres probably means that "We are borg" & "boon" are very correct in their advise...

Oh and PS:

 

Beginner’s Guide to Police Harassment

Vol.45, No.8 | NZPA | Sat September 1st, 2012

A North Island police station received this question from a resident through the feedback section of a local Police website:

“I would like to know how it is possible for police officers to continually harass people and get away with it?”

In response, a sergeant posted this reply:

First of all, let me tell you this ... it’s not easy. In the Palmerston North and rural area we average one cop for every 505 people. Only about 60 per cent of those cops are on general duty (or what you might refer to as “general patrols”) where we do most of our harassing.

The rest are in non-harassing units that do not allow them contact with the day to day innocents. At any given moment, only one-fifth of the 60 per cent of general patrols are on duty and available for harassing people while the rest are off duty. So, roughly, one cop is responsible for harassing about 6000 residents.

When you toss in the commercial business and tourist locations that attract people from other areas, sometimes you have a situation where a single cop is responsible for harassing 15,000 or more people a day.

Now, your average eight-hour shift runs 28,800 seconds long. This gives a cop two-thirds of a second to harass a person, and then only another third of a second to drink a Massey iced coffee AND then find a new person to harass. This is not an easy task. To be honest, most cops are not up to the challenge day in and day out. It is just too tiring. What we do is utilise some tools to help us narrow down those people we can realistically harass.

PHONE: People will call us up and point out things that cause us to focus on a person for special harassment. “My neighbour is beating his wife” is a code phrase used often. This means we’ll come out and give somebody some special harassment. Another popular one is, “There’s a guy breaking into a house.” The harassment team is then put into action.

CARS: We have special cops assigned to harass people who drive. They like to harass the drivers of fast cars, cars with no insurance or drivers with no licences and the like. It’s lots of fun when you pick them out of traffic for nothing more obvious than running a red light. Sometimes you get to really heap the harassment on when you find they have drugs in the car, they are drunk, or have an outstanding warrant on file.

LAWS: When we don’t have phone or cars, and have nothing better to do, there are actually books that give us ideas for reasons to harass folks. They are called “statutes”. These include the Crimes Act, Summary Offences Act, Land Transport Act and a whole bunch of others... They spell out all sorts of things for which you can really mess with people. After you read the law, you can just drive around for a while until you find someone violating one of these listed offences and harass them. Just last week I saw a guy trying to steal a car. Well, the book says that’s not allowed. That meant I had permission to harass this guy.

It is a really cool system that we have set up, and it works pretty well. We seem to have a never-ending supply of folks to harass. And we get away with it. Why? Because, for the good citizens who pay the tab, we try to keep the streets safe for them, and they pay us to “harass” some people.

Next time you are in Palmerston North, give me the old “single finger wave”. That’s another one of those codes. It means, “You can harass me.” It’s one of our favourites.

Link here

http://www.policeassn.org.nz/newsroom/publications/featured-articles/beginner%E2%80%99s-guide-police-harassment

[pedro]

Tui Time..

But officer i was just on my way to get a WOF.......Yeah Right..

[Joker]

as said : with appropriate proof : you would think the letter would get it wiped, I am also baffled

[Marky]

Issue being: there is no appropriate proof

If I was on my way to work with no wof and got pulled up, I\'d get a ticket.

I could then write in and say "I was on my way to the wof place"

There\'s no reason that would/should get wiped, what proof have I got of that - I probably just could have gone "oh crap" and then booked to go get a new one that day, and wouldn\'t have otherwise (in theory).

However if at the time I said "I am on my way to get one" and the cop used the discretion they can use, he *may* have given me 7 days to prove that yes, I\'m in the process of getting a warrant. He doesn\'t have to do this bear in mind.

At the end of the day the law is that you must have a WOF to be driving on the road. Common sense can apply - for example I\'m on my to the tyre place officer I\'ll bring you the reciept and new wof tomrrow? - but if caught without, you get ticket. Do the crime do the time I guess?

If you had been parked on the side of the road, you\'d have gotten a ticket.

If it had been at a breath checkpoint etc, it\'d be a ticket.

The thing is - you are responsible for keeping your WOF up to date and current - not wait for it to expire, then go get a new one.

If you had crashed - your insurance wouldn\'t have cared you were on your way to get one, expired is expired.

[Joker]

 Marky']

Issue being: there is no appropriate proof

[quote name='twinturboboy said:

I then wrote to the police and provided them evidence that I was going to the exhaust shop

evidence would include what then : receipt on same day as fine?

[Marky]

Oh whoops - missed that, red mist had descended haha

Thing is - if you got a ticket for say having no rego - if you then went and got one right then and there, fact is you still got caught without it.

No WOF is technically no different - you might be on your way there, but it isn\'t meant to expire in the first place or if it does - you\'re "in theory" meant to trailer it as it\'s not "safe" to be on the road.

Not trying to be a d!ck about it, just looking at it from the other side I guess

[Swindog]

 Marky said:

The thing is - you are responsible for keeping your WOF up to date and current - not wait for it to expire, then go get a new one.

If you had crashed - your insurance wouldn\'t have cared you were on your way to get one, expired is expired.

Slightly incorrect.

If you crash and have no wof but can prove the car was still worthy of a wof or it wasnt a mechanical failure that related to a wof\'able item your ok.

Also, insurance companies will give you some grace about lapsed wof\'s rule of thumb, 5 days. Lifes busy man...not everyone can get to their wofs before they expire.

[resurrection.inc]

You can still get a wof before it expires. Up to 17 days before expiry date. I got ticketed by parking warden outside a post shop when getting my rego done. It was a day out. Got out of it in the end since the time stsmp on my payment was infact 2 min after i got ticket.

[Jord]

Yup avoid WOF problems by getting the check done 1-2 weeks before actual WOF expires, that way if you fail on anything you have 7-14 days to fix it before it becomes illegal to drive.

[Guest hate-evoz]

When getting a WOF becomes a once a year thing, it will be better lol on the flipside alot of dodgey cars will be driving on the roads.. :-\

[Swindog]

 B-MAGIC said:

When getting a WOF becomes a once a year thing, it will be better lol on the flipside alot of dodgey cars will be driving on the roads.. :-\

You more so than now? I dont think so. Honest people will be honest people. The dicks will always take the liberties so i dont think much will change.

[rex-leggy]

vtnz and the police have different rules. vtnz rules mean diddly squat to enforcing police officers .

just pay the fine and next time get a new wof before it runs out .... its only twice a year

wow maby i should take my own advice

[DRFVDR]

 B-MAGIC said:

When getting a WOF becomes a once a year thing, it will be better lol on the flipside alot of dodgey cars will be driving on the roads.. :-\

dodgy people will still drive with no WOF/Dodgy WOF or change rims/suspension/exhaust then get wof then change back, just as bad and dangerous.

The Law states that a vehicle should be at WOF standard at all times,SO you should never fail a wof as it is just a check that you as the vehicle owner is doing everything you should, it is not a what is wrong with my car check as there should not be.

I get really pissed of that there seems to be alot of vehicles out there that are running either NO WOF or are obvioulsy not to WOF standard, I spend hours and hours a week making sure All of my fleet is upto WOF/COF standard ( 30 odd vehicles) one of the reasons I get a 98% first time pass rate.

There is NO excuse to fail a WOF none at all especially on OBVIOUS things like tires and lights, I have 2 personal vehicles One is a 1986 Leone RX coupe @200,000 km and it passes clean sheets every time and it is some what modded, the other is a Toyota Landcruiser @450,000 km and this also passes every time clean sheet if these 2 vehicles can pass then ALL other cars should easily do it...

/rant

[Joker]

edzactly

just cos it has a "current wof" doesnt mean its safe

like any car can still get pinked or green stickered for bald tires or worse (windscreen crack) "but its safe it has a wof doesnt always cut it (accident damage etc)

[turborunner]

 JoKer']

Issue being: there is no appropriate proof

[quote name='twinturboboy said:

I then wrote to the police and provided them evidence that I was going to the exhaust shop

/quote]

evidence would include what then : receipt on same day as fine?

Would include the wof test sheet to prove what you failed on and receipt of repairs on the day caught driving and also you should have gotten a new wof and registration on the day which is further proof that you was sorting it as you cant get a rego without a current wof, but would of been more benificial to have shown the officer the wof sheet and said you were on your way to get the repairs and new wof and rego done as he may of given you a grace period to get off the wof and rego fine so you maybe out of luck since it has gone through the system but you can still fight it if its worth your time and money, you may win or lose