Front-mount on worked 1st-gen. Worth it

[rskikn]

i was always told it was the exhaust wheel that generates most of yr lag.. aka the headers and that extra long up pipe when u do the twisted turbo not so much the cooler pipes.. think of it this way.. evo pipes are just as long if not longer.. skyline pipes on the old 2.0 turbo.. just as long.. so whats difference?? the headers are way way shorter....plus if any ones put on a set o stainless headers youll know straight away you lose bottom end power.. something to think about..

[WRXONP]

i put a set of tuned length headers on a members fozzy and It made turbo spool way faster ! the key to turbo spool is exhaust in My opinion . . flow and size

[soopersubaru]

Only one vehicle has the soopercooler fitted so far.(now coated)

YES it is more expensive to purchase Because there is more bits n pieces. (available in any colour you like) Never questioned at WOF by VTNZ!!

It does cool better than any top mount in normal driving(not hooning around a track!

It does out perform the OEM unit and supports over 250 Kw@394 Nm in 4th

As for dyno readings/ arguments over power at 16psi coupled to 200 kw Easy as to reproduce with my daughters 1800 NA FWD car!!!

How? Easy to figure out for an engineer (most mechanics have no idea.) Lol. Lets see who knows how.

Torque is the talk!!

Turbos run on heat!! although pressure is also very important too. Therefore SS headers (equal or unequal) run your turbo up to speed slowly due to heat loss. This can be corrected.

WRXONP is correct!! "key to spool IS exhaust" Design and sizing more than anything else!

[Koom]

 soopersubaru said:

How? Easy to figure out for an engineer (most mechanics have no idea.) Lol. Lets see who knows how.

Do you want to leave the elitist bullshit out of it please. There's no wonder that people in the trades don't like Engineers when people have that type of attitude.

[Pappu1]

Lol I'm no engineer but I guess it will be to screw with the dyno correction factor and get a fake reading??

Anyway all I can say is that i have never heard of Robyn at TP d such jazz and any dyno graph he prints is legit

On a side note I once had a 238kw Wrx and man it was quick real quick! I can only imagine how Awsum wrxonp 235 must be!!!! Nice stuff bro

[maserati mick]

Hey bro wtf is a supercooler?

[soopersubaru]

 maserati mick said:

Hey bro wtf is a supercooler?

Type soopercooler into this sites search.(best for subaru) :)

Practical type engineer ...I crawled up from the bottom.(still learning too!)..No uni quals here (I cant stand paperwork engineers either!)

No need to alter the dyno to achieve high readings. How??

Torque is what matters not Kw so much.

[Pappu1]

does torque get affected by wheel size tho?

especially running on a rolling road dyno.....

[WRXONP]

yeah Wheel torque will change with different final drive ratio and different rolling diameter of wheels etc etc . .

[WRXONP]

just think about It this way . you always need to remember that every action has a opposite reaction !

[Pappu1]

 WRXONP said:

just think about It this way . you always need to remember that every action has a opposite reaction !

lol no no.. i was just thinking how soopersubaru guy said can manage 1.8l fwd car to have the hi kw count as there was some special engineer trick..

lol..

ok i give up man..

tell us the trick

[soopersubaru]

 pappu']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

just think about It this way . you always need to remember that every action has a opposite reaction !

/quote]

lol no no.. i was just thinking how soopersubaru guy said can manage 1.8l fwd car to have the hi kw count as there was some special engineer trick..

lol..

ok i give up man..

tell us the trick

lower gear!... simple really......can you get 394 Nm in 4th? my daughters car will pull the Kw but not the Torque!

in first gear 250 Kw easy as However the torque would be lucky to get over 100 Nm.

so what im saying is any car can return high Kw....But will not do the torque.

Torque equals power not Kw.

[WRXONP]

torque is the pull you feel . although my car made peak kw near 7500 its faster to change before 7k and keep the torque on !

[boon]

Torque IS power. Did nobody here do physics at school? Torque = force, Power = work/time, Work = force*time.

KW = Torque * RPM... with a couple of other numbers thrown in.

[WRXONP]

one thing i never under stood and still don't is how that equation works ?

for instance last dyno day a ver7 that was pretty stock pulled around 80 nm more than me . . but i pulled over 30kw more ? im pretty sure the avcs is what gives great torque but does that equation work out perfect every time ?

[Koom]

 soopersubaru']

[quote name='WRXONP said:

just think about It this way . you always need to remember that every action has a opposite reaction !

/quote]

lol no no.. i was just thinking how soopersubaru guy said can manage 1.8l fwd car to have the hi kw count as there was some special engineer trick..

lol..

ok i give up man..

tell us the trick

lower gear!... simple really......can you get 394 Nm in 4th? my daughters car will pull the Kw but not the Torque!

in first gear 250 Kw easy as However the torque would be lucky to get over 100 Nm.

so what im saying is any car can return high Kw....But will not do the torque.

Torque equals power not Kw.

Wow! After dissing Mechanics, maybe you should re-educate yourself on the correct use of some physics terms before typing more stuff that doesn't make sense because you don't come across as a very good "Engineer" if you don't know the difference between power and torque.

A gearbox is a torque multiplier i.e. apply 100Nm of torque to it and it'll output say 200Nm of torque. If it's 100% efficient, the rpm will be changed by the same ratio so that the power is the same. Because power is the amount of work done and you cannot have higher output power than input unless you've decided that Newton had no idea what he was talking about.

I think you are alluding to 4th gear as that was traditionally a 1:1 gear so the torque shown on the dyno was essentially what the engine outputted. But Subaru's don't have a 1:1 gear afaik so all torque figures produced by a chassis dyno need to be corrected to show the true torque.

Torque equals power not Kw. <<WRONG!!

kW IS power! by definition.

Torque is basically your rotational force. Hence why your car puts out more torque to the wheels in lower gears as the gearbox multiplies that force by reducing the rpm's.

Why else is there so many people that will post dyno plots with >2000Nm on it and they think that is how much their engine makes

[Koom]

 WRXONP said:

one thing i never under stood and still don't is how that equation works ?

for instance last dyno day a ver7 that was pretty stock pulled around 80 nm more than me . . but i pulled over 30kw more ? im pretty sure the avcs is what gives great torque but does that equation work out perfect every time ?

The torque figure needs to be corrected in regards to the gear ratio/final drive ratio to tell you the torque that the engine actually produced.

Another factor is where was their peak torque compared to your's? If they make peak torque earlier, they could make more torque but less peak power (however at the peak torque rpms, they'd be making more power than you).

I'll have to find the equations for power/torque and rpm's I posted a while ago to explain that 3250Nm wasn't a realistic torque figure that some dude had.

[boon]

 WRXONP said:

one thing i never under stood and still don't is how that equation works ?

for instance last dyno day a ver7 that was pretty stock pulled around 80 nm more than me . . but i pulled over 30kw more ? im pretty sure the avcs is what gives great torque but does that equation work out perfect every time ?

Yes. His torque would have come much earlier in the curve then dropped off - lots of torque times not many revs = some power, almost as much torque times more revs = more power.

[rskikn]

 BLSTIC said:

For the purposes of this conversation, worked includes 7.5:1 compression pistons, wrx heads, a 2.5" exhaust, cold-air intake, and an effectively free-boosted VF10.

I would hope to have maybe 230kw at the flywheel.

Is going to a large front-mounted intercooler going to have much effect at this level? Aside from adding toss factor of course (I'll probably paint it black anyway though).

Note that this does NOT mean that my new engine is built, just that I'm bored and thinking of what else I can do as well.

Thanks

Ben

think this was the original question....

[WRXONP]

yeah club sub goes off topic ha ha . but honestly i can't remember when the ver7 had peak torque etc so kinda throws that out the window . .

how do you work out fly Wheel torque from Wheel torque ? divide by 4 or something different ?

edit . just had another read and you said about final drive ?

what's the equation ?

[Pappu1]

 WRXONP said:

yeah club sub goes off topic ha ha . but honestly i can't remember when the ver7 had peak torque etc so kinda throws that out the window . .

how do you work out fly Wheel torque from Wheel torque ? divide by 4 or something different ?

edit . just had another read and you said about final drive ?

what's the equation ?

i can post some graphs if i was at that dyno

when was this?

the one at TP or PP before?

do u know whoz car?

[soopersubaru]

Kw= power true.! torque = force. ie the force is what you need...high torque coupled with reasonable Kw will always win over high Kw and low Torque.

the cross over of peak torque and Kw required is the point of maximum output...The further up the rpm scale crossover occurs the more actual power.

Unfortunately most dynos are not corrected for the gearbox, therefore readings can be spurious and can be changed easily both in torque and power.

(so all sheets should post the gear they are in to provide clarity is what i'm getting at)

Yes both increase at the same rate/ratio, However in a low gear situation the cross over is wider than the engine is actually achieving. At the high torque peak in a low gear the power req is low, at the high power peak the torque has dived to a low. Rpm point of high torque 2000, Rpm point of high power 7000

( Especially daughters Na 1800)

If one can achieve peak torque at say 3000rpm and keep it level or climbing further past this initial peak as power/rpm increases.....Then you have some real " driving power" Regardless of gear selected.

Calculation back to crankshaft Torque and Kw still does not show the "driving Power" we all want.

Torque line on the dyno sheet is the one to be interested in.

If the torque line dives as rpm increases it will not have this "driving power"/"pull" regardless of eventual Kw output.

Clarity restored?

[soopersubaru]

 rskikn']

[quote name='BLSTIC said:

For the purposes of this conversation, worked includes 7.5:1 compression pistons, wrx heads, a 2.5" exhaust, cold-air intake, and an effectively free-boosted VF10.

I would hope to have maybe 230kw at the flywheel.

Is going to a large front-mounted intercooler going to have much effect at this level? Aside from adding toss factor of course (I'll probably paint it black anyway though).

Note that this does NOT mean that my new engine is built, just that I'm bored and thinking of what else I can do as well.

Thanks

Ben

/quote]

think this was the original question....

VF 10 does not flow enough air for real wheel power. Soopercooler is an option for WAIC or a PWR but they are awkward to fit.

Soopercooler provides a sleeper look from outside bonnet and inside if coated to suit.

Replaces top mount, new larger pipes run ,no holes in structure.

Costs more than FMIC,, More bits n pieces. Only fits subaru.

[Pappu1]

what u think of this power curve soopersubaru

(have tried to make it as flat as i cud with the timimg etc)

4th gear run lol

[soopersubaru]

 pappu said:

what u think of this power curve soopersubaru

(have tried to make it as flat as i cud with the timimg etc)

4th gear run lol

Have one very similar in the same gear, probably one of the best actually achievable on a short stroke high powered single charged turbo petrol engine.

Now if one could keep the boost climbing the torque would go flatter again, Almost unachievable! and still have a road drivable car.