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Aftermarket wastegate actuators


ginganinja
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2 hours ago, Technikhaus said:

So while I haven't put a turbosmart gate onto a VF22, I went from a VF22 to a turbo with an IWG-75, and did take side-by-side pictures, it looks like it'd bolt right up.

 

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Out of interest what turbo was it that had the IWG75? Did it make a decent difference with boost control?

 

They make a IWG75 specifically for the VF39, VF48 single scroll turbos, so wondering if one of those would bolt straight to a VF22 provided the Comp housings have the mounting bolts on the same spot.

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  • 4 months later...

Digging up this old thread again. I am still looking into fitting an IWG75 to my VF22.

 

Does anyone know if the VF48 turbo as similar physical dimensions and compressor housings to the older VF turbos such as VF22?

 

If they do one of the VF48 specific kits may work.

 

Alternatively has anyone used an avoturbo actuator kit in their builds?

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On 15/02/2022 at 3:57 PM, boon said:

Feels like putting lipstick on a pig, is there something wrong with the stock actuator?

Nope nothing wrong with stock actuator. Just purely interested to know if someone has used an IWG75 and seen any benefits of doing so. E.g. do they do what they say. Does it bring on boost noticeably sooner if using 12-14psi spring? Does it hold boost better than stock? 

 

Is it going to help low-mid range power? 

 

Having a bigger spring will most likely mean running less wastgate duty cycle, so can this side of it only be a good thing?

 

Basically keen to hear some real world experience.

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So you want to hear from someone that changed their spring pressure and/or actuator for no reason? Probably not the person you want advice from :)

 

Unless you are having a boost control problem, there likely isn't anything to improve.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Loren said:

So you want to hear from someone that changed their spring pressure and/or actuator for no reason? Probably not the person you want advice from :)

 

Unless you are having a boost control problem, there likely isn't anything to improve.

 

 

 

No, You have misunderstood me.

 

I want to hear from someone who has changed from using a stock actuator to an IWG75 with higher base pressure and had an improvement in performance....or vice versa or not seen any change. As mentioned above some real world results. 

 

If I am right a stock VF22 actuator is about 7-8psi. Hence when the car is tuned to approx 22psi the wastgate duty cycle is very high. Am I wrong to think that a higher base pressure would help boost build faster? Therefore resulting in a better power band and also mean lower wastgate duty cycle and better boost management? 

 

At the end of the day, if you haven't tried you can't really say it will or won't do anything. 

 

If no one on here has used one shall I be the guinea pig and see what results I find?

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10 hours ago, ginganinja said:

No, You have misunderstood me.

 

I want to hear from someone who has changed from using a stock actuator to an IWG75 with higher base pressure and had an improvement in performance....or vice versa or not seen any change. As mentioned above some real world results. 

 

If I am right a stock VF22 actuator is about 7-8psi. Hence when the car is tuned to approx 22psi the wastgate duty cycle is very high. Am I wrong to think that a higher base pressure would help boost build faster? Therefore resulting in a better power band and also mean lower wastgate duty cycle and better boost management? 

 

At the end of the day, if you haven't tried you can't really say it will or won't do anything. 

 

If no one on here has used one shall I be the guinea pig and see what results I find?

 

Are you running a 3-port solenoid? If you are 22psi is still well within the zone other get to. The properly working solenoid valve should be able to bypass enough to not creep open.

Higher pressure springs should make no difference to spool either unless the solenoid is maxed out and can't bypass enough to stay below the 8psi which extreme exhaust pressure can impact too but doubtful on your car.

 

The guy who bought my old 22 ended up putting an aftermarket one on for some reason so there must be an option out there that works, unless he just redrilled the comp housing for the different mounting. 

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3 hours ago, Andy_Mac said:

 

Are you running a 3-port solenoid? If you are 22psi is still well within the zone other get to. The properly working solenoid valve should be able to bypass enough to not creep open.

Higher pressure springs should make no difference to spool either unless the solenoid is maxed out and can't bypass enough to stay below the 8psi which extreme exhaust pressure can impact too but doubtful on your car.

 

The guy who bought my old 22 ended up putting an aftermarket one on for some reason so there must be an option out there that works, unless he just redrilled the comp housing for the different mounting. 

Yep I am using a 3 port solenoid and the first tune up on the car worked fine. I have since changed a couple of things on my set up so I am going back to dyno to have the tune tidied up at end of March. Before doing so I wanted to do some research into these actuators to see if i would potentially see some further gains by changing to one.

 

Would it be right to think a 12-14psi spring should mean the car should get to 12-14psi faster/easier as the wastegate is managing this before the 3 port solenoid takes over to manage boost control from there on after. 

 

I may be completely wrong in my understanding of all this, but I figured if you don't ask you don't know.

 

There doesn't seem to be any info documented online of people using them, so maybe its not worth doing.

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38 minutes ago, ginganinja said:

Yep I am using a 3 port solenoid and the first tune up on the car worked fine. I have since changed a couple of things on my set up so I am going back to dyno to have the tune tidied up at end of March. Before doing so I wanted to do some research into these actuators to see if i would potentially see some further gains by changing to one.

 

Would it be right to think a 12-14psi spring should mean the car should get to 12-14psi faster/easier as the wastegate is managing this before the 3 port solenoid takes over to manage boost control from there on after. 

 

I may be completely wrong in my understanding of all this, but I figured if you don't ask you don't know.

 

There doesn't seem to be any info documented online of people using them, so maybe its not worth doing.

 

It shouldn't get on boost any faster than with a bigger spring if everything is working as it should. Running out of control at high boost is the usual reason to upgrade though the preload on an adjustable arm has been know to stop them creeping open also. 

 

The solenoid is disrupting the pressure going to the actuator so you could technically have zero boost pressure making it's way to the actuator which will allow the fastest spool possible, but that isn't necessary as you only need to stay below the opening threshold of the stock spring to keep that optimal response. 

 

You can pull your turbo and using an air compressor with a low pressure attachment test the gate to see at what psi of ‘boost’ it would start to creep open. It won't help the tuner much but will give you a idea of how it's doing it's thing. 

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When you cycle/power the solenoid, you bleed boost away from the actuator's diaphragm, allowing it to pull the gate closed. A higher pressure spring just gives you a higher base boost pressure if your solenoid fails or something. The only time they're useful is if you have such a high pressure differential across the turbo that the gate starts to blow open from exhaust pressure on the gate, in which case your turbine wheel and/or housing is too small anyway and you're putting a bandaid on the problem. The spring rate in the gate makes no difference to anything practical with a correctly setup electronic boost controller (such as the factory one) because it should have essentially atmospheric pressure only when the solenoid is powered on (essentially creating a boost leak in the intake, hence the restrictor pill in the factory setup) and when the solenoid is off you want it to push the gate open anyway, right? The only way you'll get the gate creeping open from the actuator is if you have so much boost pressure that you can generate >7psi through a restrictor pill into a hose that has a vacuum (assuming you're still running AFM and have the boost solenoid plumbed back to the turbo intake) on the other end.

 

Big gate springs are a relic of the days of rising rate fuel pressure regulators, boost taps, and janky EFR controllers that did bad things to your AFM signal, not modern cars with modern ECUs and 3-port solenoids.

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If you look at external wastegates they have two ports. One port pushes the gate open, and the other holds it closed.

So operating in a situation where the spring pressure is too light to hold the gate shut in order to meet the desire boost level,

is normal in a lot of situations. But not with a factory setup. 

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Standard configuration with 2-port external is that you plumb boost to both sides of the actuator. When you want to build boost, you put equal pressure on both sides of the diaphragm, so the spring closes the wastegate because there is no pressure difference across it. When you want to control boost, you remove the boost from the "close" side, so the boost on the open side acts against the spring to open the gate, at somewhere around the pressure of the spring. Again, all things being equal and working correctly, you should be able to get as much boost as you want with a pretty boring spring rate, because when you want the gate shut there is no pressure difference across it - once more, other than exhaust pressure acting on the gate's valve and trying to push it open.

 

EDIT: With a 3-port solenoid you usually have "Normally Open", "Normally Closed", and "Common". When you have no power applied to the solenoid the path is open between NO and COM. You plumb the gate's "close" port to COM and NO goes to atmosphere or your intake pre-turbo; when you want to build boost you cycle the solenoid so that NC, plumbed to a boost source, is open to COM, which fills the "close" side of the diaphragm and cancels out the boost pressure on the "open" side. You can have 20psi, 40psi, whatever, it effectively disappears because the pressure is equal on both sides of the diaphragm. When the solenoid turns off, the "close" side dumps boost to the atmosphere/intake.

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