Minimal Cam Belt Service? (EJ20 DOHC)

[Guest]

Thinking out loud... What is the minimal amount of work (DIY, not by a shop) that can be done to gain the peace of mind that an EJ20 cam belt is in good shape for a while? ???

The standard "100K service" seems to involve replacement of the belt, idlers, pulleys, tensioner, camshaft seals, etc... along with the water pump. Basically enough work to say that the whole front half of the engine is good for another 100K, and probably also just changing things because you have the opportunity when it is all apart. It all sounds good, but these services can cost $1000-1200 from a shop!

However, what is the story when you are doing the work yourself?

For example:

* If the water pump is not changed, is there enough clearance to change the cam belt without disconnecting the radiator or draining the coolant?

* The service manual says the tensioner can be reused, but it can take up to 1000kg of force to compress it to get the pin back in place to install it... Does everyone just toss their used but good condition tensioners and buy new ones to avoid this step?

* Can all of the rest of the parts (pulleys, idlers, and seals) just be inspected and replaced if necessary? If the belt snaps, you need a new engine... but it seems like the other parts would make some noise or produce a visible leak when they wear out, giving you at least a little bit of a warning...

Tell me if I'm missing something... I've never had one of these engines apart.

[wrx_lou]

$1000 is a cheap cambelt service when you take into account to do the full job your looking at about 600for parts alone.

[Guest]

it makes it alot easier to remove the radiator, take a look and see how much space you dont have with it in there lol.

the tensioner can be reused, use a vice to reset it, check it make sure its not leaking and looks good.

its easier to change the other pullys, but if you know what you looking for and have the experience, you can check them and make up your own mind. any bearing can fail, even new ones. so its one of those things.

if a bearing does fail, it will most likely jam the pully or crate drag, which can very quickly wear through the cam belt.

-smurff

[Guest]

 smurff']

it makes it alot easier to remove the radiator, take a look and see how much space you dont have with it in there lol.

the tensioner can be reused, use a vice to reset it, check it make sure its not leaking and looks good.

its easier to change the other pullys, but if you know what you looking for and have the experience, you can check them and make up your own mind. any bearing can fail, even new ones. so its one of those things.

if a bearing does fail, it will most likely jam the pully or crate drag, which can very quickly wear through the cam belt.

-smurff

early tensioners (pencil type) can be reused if needed by compressing with a vice over a 5min period

later type (vertical push with idler bearing attached) can be reused BUT MUST be compressed in a press, NOT IN A BENCH VICE

[quote name='Old Blue said:

Thinking out loud... What is the minimal amount of work (DIY, not by a shop) that can be done to gain the peace of mind that an EJ20 cam belt is in good shape for a while? ???

The standard "100K service" seems to involve replacement of the belt, idlers, pulleys, tensioner, camshaft seals, etc... along with the water pump. Basically enough work to say that the whole front half of the engine is good for another 100K, and probably also just changing things because you have the opportunity when it is all apart. It all sounds good, but these services can cost $1000-1200 from a shop!

However, what is the story when you are doing the work yourself?

For example:

* If the water pump is not changed, is there enough clearance to change the cam belt without disconnecting the radiator or draining the coolant?

* The service manual says the tensioner can be reused, but it can take up to 1000kg of force to compress it to get the pin back in place to install it... Does everyone just toss their used but good condition tensioners and buy new ones to avoid this step?

* Can all of the rest of the parts (pulleys, idlers, and seals) just be inspected and replaced if necessary? If the belt snaps, you need a new engine... but it seems like the other parts would make some noise or produce a visible leak when they wear out, giving you at least a little bit of a warning...

Tell me if I'm missing something... I've never had one of these engines apart.

replacing all idlers / seals /waterpump is good insurance, but you can just do a belt and cross ya fingers

Waterpumps can fail without any warning as can belt idlers

[Drunkenmonkey]

if you do belt DO WATER PUMP!!! its not worth the hassle of pull it all off yet again... im talking from experience here

[Guest]

water pumps are cheap, even from subaru, so its good thing to do.

-smurff

[Shale]

+1 don't be a nupty and forgo the waterpump. Seen an engine nuked by a dead waterpump and many tears cried in other cars. What the monkey said is 100% truth.

As suggested you can just replace the belt and hope for the best, but you said it yourself... a belt failing = new engine. It's not just a belt physically snapping that can result in epic fail. Your choice, red pill or blue pill.

And yes, have done this on BOTH my cars and will be doing it to a third sometime soon. It's just not something worth shortcutting IMO.

[newsuba]

 wrx_lou said:

$1000 is a cheap cambelt service when you take into account to do the full job your looking at about 600for parts alone.

Yep.

Just had mine done.

Car's only done 70,000km but is ten years old so better safe than sorry...

Cambelt, tensioner and seal kit $370.00

Water pump and gasket kit 186.43

Total $556.43 + GST = $625.98

Add a full service and the bill was just over $1000.

Cheap compared to an engine rebuild.

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies. I'm certainly not trying to skimp on anything... just trying to get a feel for what the important bits are, and what levels of priority they have when the labor rates are out of the equation. 8)

Are the water pumps a common failure item?

So my situation is that my Legacy has 215,000km and no real service history. I assume that it must have had the timing belt changed at least once to make it this far, but who knows if it was changed a second time, or when? A $1200 preventative maintenance bill would come pretty close to half the value of the car. ;D It's not money that I would recover in resale (ie: it doesn't add $1000 to the car's value), so I have to consider it as "insurance" and not as an "investment".

That's why I was thinking that if a simpler change of the belt only could eliminate the majority of the risk, for less than a third of the cost, it might make sense. 8) But again, just thinking out loud, so I do appreciate the advice!

[driftrex]

 Old Blue said:

Are the water pumps a common failure item?

from my experience your waterpump is more likely to die before the cambelt so definately make sure you replace it, and if the waterpump goes it will cause the engine to overheat if you dont notice in time and then boom, bye bye head gaskets, and possibly entire engine.

are you planning on keeping this car? if so do the whole lot, dont miss anything out. you will be kicking yourself if you dont, many people have done this before.

[Jimbob]

what about the trademe cambelt kits are they worth it?

[Guest boostin]

Do it once, do it right.

[infinite]

ive seen a cars water pump's bearing fail seeize the idler on it and melt the belt. didnt take long bent the valves. what was worse is mitsubishi listed it as a non interference engine for that year and model but after a new belt n shit mitsi were definitly wrong!

[ReubenH]

Absolutely get a new tensioner, unless you know the old one is actually new. If it's 100,000K old, REPLACE IT. Tensioner failures can destroy an engine (Think, vavles making friends with pistons).

Also, Absolutely replace the water pump, water pump failures are common, and if go un-noticed, can also kill engines (think overheating and warping block/heads)

I'm not even a mechanic, and i've seen tensioners fail, and multiple water pumps fail. Luckily with the tensioner, it failed while we were checking the cambelt, before we actually started the car (just wasn't holding enough pressure, and slipped a tooth somewhere)

The simple fact of the matter is cutting corners is un-wise, and a gamble, than can cost you quite a bit more than a water pump and tensioner.

Basically, the minimum for a cambelt change should be new belt, idlers, tensioner, and pump.

Also, only buy genuine, most the failed pumps i've seen have been aftermarket, only seen 1 failed factory pump.

[DRFVDR]

 Old Blue said:

Thanks for the replies. I'm certainly not trying to skimp on anything... just trying to get a feel for what the important bits are, and what levels of priority they have when the labor rates are out of the equation. 8)

Are the water pumps a common failure item?

So my situation is that my Legacy has 215,000km and no real service history. I assume that it must have had the timing belt changed at least once to make it this far, but who knows if it was changed a second time, or when? A $1200 preventative maintenance bill would come pretty close to half the value of the car. ;D It's not money that I would recover in resale (ie: it doesn't add $1000 to the car's value), so I have to consider it as "insurance" and not as an "investment".

That's why I was thinking that if a simpler change of the belt only could eliminate the majority of the risk, for less than a third of the cost, it might make sense. 8) But again, just thinking out loud, so I do appreciate the advice!

:)considering it has done shy over 200,000 k's I would suggest u do the lot as u can bet that the previous owner didnt do it

Yesterday I broke the news to my cousin that a 100,000 k/m service will cost her about $1000 on her 1500cc impreza she was not happy as it only cost her $4000 oh well

[Guest]

putting in a good antifrezze also a good thing to do when you do waterpump when you do your cambelt plus flush radiator and blow out fins, antifrezze has lubricating propertys also for rubber seals and stuff, as well a frezze protection and boil point.

;D

[lamboiah]

Does anyone know how many teeth the bh5/Be engine cam/timing belt has?

[Guest boostin]

281 from memory.

[Guest]

 boostin said:

281 from memory.

creepy that anyone whould have that in there memory :P

-smurff

[Drunkenmonkey]

he doesnt actually do work so he fills his mind with random information for times like this so it seems like he works

[Guest boostin]

 Drunkenmonkey said:

he doesnt actually do work so he fills his mind with random information for times like this so it seems like he works

SSHHHHHH!!!

[dogmanjunior]

 newsuba']

[quote name='wrx_lou said:

$1000 is a cheap cambelt service when you take into account to do the full job your looking at about 600for parts alone.

/quote]

Yep.

Just had mine done.

Car's only done 70,000km but is ten years old so better safe than sorry...

Cambelt, tensioner and seal kit $370.00

Water pump and gasket kit 186.43

Total $556.43 + GST = $625.98

Add a full service and the bill was just over $1000.

Cheap compared to an engine rebuild.

Where did you get this done mate? Sounds very reasonable compared with what I've heard.

[newsuba]

Elite Automotive

52 Taonui Street, Palmerston North

(06) 3566867

Ask for Eddie (the boss).

[dogmanjunior]

 newsuba said:

Elite Automotive

52 Taonui Street, Palmerston North

(06) 3566867

Ask for Eddie (the boss).

Bugger, was hoping for somewhere closer to the 09 :-\

Only got 84k on the clock atm, so still a wee while to get something sorted...

[jacsmiley]

 lamboiah said:

Does anyone know how many teeth the bh5/Be engine cam/timing belt has?

i have my old one at home

ill check when i get home and post it

from memory its one of the longest

and no one has said any different but the ej20 DOHC (sorry boostin lol) regardless of the aspiration or model its in should be the same cambelt. just different tensioners/water pumps/idlers etc..