Serious EJ20R engine woes

[rico]

Hi, so I've just had my suspicions confirmed at the Subaru dealer that my 97 legacy gtb engines got a knock in the bottom end . Noticed it last night when was heading home, and was really obvious this morning. Definitely worse when cold but is still noticeable when engines up to temp.

Was hoping it wasn't too serious cos car still drives mint but was told its only going to get worse (was told could be matter of days, weeks or months depending on how lucky I am). Is it normal for the car to run normally with bottom end issues??

I've only had the car about 6 months and have looked after it in that time, frequent oil and filter changes etc no codes or anything haven't thrashed it, just seemed to happen out of the blue. Maybe just fkn bad luck and general wear and tear? Mind you I guess I don't know how well it was looked after before I bought it.

Anyway so thats the background to my depressing news, now I need to figure out what to do!

My options:

1) Cut my losses and sell parts that I can

-Probably won't get much money for it (Apparantly worth well under $1000 to wreckers)

-Could sell parts myself but takes time and don't have a spare car in the meantime.

2) Re-build

-Obviously the best option in terms of minimizing future problems

-Problems are don't have the experience to do much of the work myself and the cost is gonna be huge, Subaru dealer said at a guestimate I'd be looking at 4.5-6.5K.

3) Drop in another engine

-Good news is have one available locally with 93,000Km on the clock and have been quoted $2,500 to remove my engine and install this one, comes with turbos etc which is good because my primary has been whining quite badly of late. Comes with 3 month warranty if installed by them.

So Im leaning towards option 3, in fact considering time and money constraints it really is my only option if i want to keep the car.

Does the price I mentioned seem OK? I've had a look and it seems to be pretty hard to find another EJ20R around.

[zarnah]

option 3, then sell......

[rico]

Not a bad idea there Zarnah, I hadn't thought of that. I really do like the car though but should probably consider that option.

[Glen]

 zarnah said:

option 3, then sell......

And get a 3.0.

[Joker]

yea time for a trade, once you start spending money on it your better off to keep it

confirm either BeB or if its 'just' piston slap 1st

[rico]

Is piston slap still noticeable when engines warm? The knock is definitely still audible when engines warm. Is it possible to confirm beb without pulling engine apart.

[ReubenH]

 rico said:

(was told could be matter of days, weeks or months depending on how lucky I am)

Try hours even. Mine started making a nasty tick when i was at ardmore. by the time i got to mt wellington about 20 k's later, the engine was ROOTED. If it's just a dul deep toc toc toc when warm, yes it's the bebs, and yes you have weeks at the most.

If you love your car like you should. Rebuild. Grab a PBMS short block, chuck your heads on it, single convert with V3 STi parts, and you're away laughing. The other option is a brand new EJ207 short block from winger. Chuck your heads on it, single convert it with V3 STi parts, and you're away laughing.

If you don't love your car... why did you buy it? sell and move on.

[log1call]

Piston slap!

Can you get/did you get an oil pressure test done? If you do get one done get the pressure checked cold and hot and record pressures at idle and with revs, hot and cold.

Bearings get noisier as the oil warms up. Pistone get quieter as they expand.

If you half stall the motor in gear the oil pump delivers less oil and the load on the bearings gets greater so the knock gets louder.

Piston expand quickly as they warm up, typically they will get quieter within about two minutes or less.

Listen to the noise with the bonnet up, listen from cold and until it has warmed up. See if the noise gets significantly quieter and quieter quickly as it warms up.

Let the car cool right off then listen again with the bonnet up. This time half stall it and listen while it's cold then about fifteen minutes later when it's oil is warm.

Take careful note of all the symptoms and report back.

I reckon your subaru dealer has made a bad diagnosis there.

[rico]

log1call i hope your right mate! I will do what you suggest when I get a chance, thanks for the help. And no I haven't had the oil pressure checked

[log1call]

Then the dealer just made a guess!!

Either way it's time for some work on the motor. If you were going to do the pistons it's a good idea to do all the bearings, seals, valve grind at the same time.

Price the parts, see qho can help you do the work if you are not sure you can do it yourself.

[ReubenH]

 log1call said:

I reckon your subaru dealer has made a bad diagnosis there.

I highly doubt this to be honest mate. I was WELL aware of BEB issues with EJ20R's when i bought mine. I found i had loud as piston slap too. Took it to a dealer to get the rocker covers done, and got it back with them telling me i had beb knock. I didn't bileave it, they said they know the sound, been there done that many times. I had both piston slap and beb knock. Guess what. they were bloody right, 2 weeks later i was stranded in mt wellington with a car that was not going anywhere in a rush.

[log1call]

Ha, yeah well they(and you) may well be right.

There is a difference between a diagnosis and a guess though, no matter how educated the guess.

I'm a mechanic, and a honest self employed one at that, so I can't afford to guess. Perhaps dealers can get away with it because they have service managers who are trained to bullshit their way out of bad diagnosis/workmanship.

[Hailz]

How many Km's has the Legacy done rico?

[Guest itsgotgo]

 log1call said:

Piston slap!

Can you get/did you get an oil pressure test done? If you do get one done get the pressure checked cold and hot and record pressures at idle and with revs, hot and cold.

Bearings get noisier as the oil warms up. Pistone get quieter as they expand.

If you half stall the motor in gear the oil pump delivers less oil and the load on the bearings gets greater so the knock gets louder.

Piston expand quickly as they warm up, typically they will get quieter within about two minutes or less.

Listen to the noise with the bonnet up, listen from cold and until it has warmed up. See if the noise gets significantly quieter and quieter quickly as it warms up.

Let the car cool right off then listen again with the bonnet up. This time half stall it and listen while it's cold then about fifteen minutes later when it's oil is warm.

Take careful note of all the symptoms and report back.

I reckon your subaru dealer has made a bad diagnosis there.

+1 mine does it untill warm then goes quietish.

I am an avid fan of fanging mine around to 8k sometimes and its fine

[rico]

car done 139,000 km.

[gotasuby]

do an oil change and then you will know as you will have metal in the oil if its BEB

[rico]

Wish it was piston slap but the noise was still pretty loud this morning after driving from home to the dealership (bout 10-15m) it does get quieter when warm but not within a few minutes, more like 15-20min

[Volcanix]

are u in chch man?, if so i could proly hook u up with a deal at my workshop dyno-g performance with dropping a new motor in and such

[Guest]

Rhubarb: please stop telling everyone to "chuck v3 STi bits on it and it will be ok".

The guy has said he doesnt want to spend that much on the vehicle and he doesnt seem to be overly confident mechanically so that would rule out conversion to single turbo no?

Id go with option C dude. you dont need to sell but as zarnah has said, it could be the best idea. You could crack the engine open and freshen up whilst it is out if you plan on keeping it.

Fuck option B. Overpriced to say the least.

[WRXER]

 Volcanix said:

are u in chch man?, if so i could proly hook u up with a deal at my workshop dyno-g performance with dropping a new motor in and such

Dyno-g still exists, holy crap I thought that placed closed years ago... sorry off topic

Anyhow I +1 Rossmnz

[Volcanix]

lol it ticked along quitely for a while and nw ive taken it over along with my parents, So if your a local hit me up and ill sort you out for a good deal on anything you may need, we do all kinds of work and custom work as well

[Guest]

had some work done on my wrx when the asian dude with the yellow wrx wagon owned it.

You chch guys remember that? Was a cool wag imo

[Volcanix]

heh jun still has that plus a 580rwhp supra and a 140db sound system in it lol

[Guest]

 ReubenH']

[quote name='rico said:

(was told could be matter of days, weeks or months depending on how lucky I am)/quote]

Try hours even. Mine started making a nasty tick when i was at ardmore. by the time i got to mt wellington about 20 k's later, the engine was ROOTED. If it's just a dul deep toc toc toc when warm, yes it's the bebs, and yes you have weeks at the most.

If you love your car like you should. Rebuild. Grab a PBMS short block, chuck your heads on it, single convert with V3 STi parts, and you're away laughing. The other option is a brand new EJ207 short block from winger. Chuck your heads on it, single convert it with V3 STi parts, and you're away laughing.

If you don't love your car... why did you buy it? sell and move on.

+ 1 Rebuild if you love it.. big end can happen on the new car too..

[rico]

Na, in Dunedin volcanix, cheers for the offer though.

Just took car to couple other places in town (incl an engine recondition place) all told me the same thing, that definitely bottom end problem of some sort with BEB damage most likely.

Reuben, would love to do the whole rebuild and single turbo conversion approach (I've read your thread a few times) but like I said don't have the $'s for it and am most likely going to be heading overseas in about 18 months anyway so am going to go with the secondhand engine replacement.

Does $2500 all up for an engine replacement sound reasonable? Replacement engine done 94,000km, includes both turbos, transferring over the cambelt, tensioners etc from my fkd engine which were replaced a couple of months ago. Also includes oil, filters coolant etc and a 3 month warranty.

I've done a bit of searching and seems a pretty good price considering lowish Kms of engine, realise 2nd hands a gamble but only feasible option for me at the mo.