Cheapo tires, worth it in the long run?

[dimin]

Have used those triangle cheap ass tyres in the past on my old RSB and they were honestly pathetic IMO, the rear felt like it was swaying all the time and the wet weather grip was poor at best. Wouldnt recommend any cheapo tyres unless its on daily driver round the city. And look around too, i got a pair of RE01-R potenzas for my sti at 180 for both fitted, second hand, bout 30% worn, which i thought was a mean score

[newsuba]

 Erelyes said:

Not saying everyone needs RE001 adrenalines, but Supercats and retreads should be illegal... so should any tyres more than 7ish years old, the rubber goes to sh*t aftera while!

Good call.

When buying tyres always check the build date stamped on the side of all tyres.

With used tyres never buy anything over six years old.

With new tyres I wouldn't touch anything that' s bees itting around for more than a year or so.

[subieboy]

I have come up with the one good thing the cheapo tyres such as triangle is good for (apart from helping Darwin along)...

Burnouts! at a Burnout comp

Lest face it, would you use your good bridgestones/Pirelli's etc on a burnoput or a crappy poos triangle/wingle/wangle for it...

[DPI]

TBH though, it's not always the most expensive tyre thats the best, or better.

And vehicle and driving style play a part too.

I had a brand new set of Toyo T1R's on the spec c, and i don't rate them, at all!

They caused understeer (and the spec c NEVER understeered before). However, on the GT Legacy wagon, i had a brand new set of Toyo Proxes 4, and i would rate them, very highly actually.

Go figure.

By the way, neither were anywhere as good as the Adrenalins.

[Shale]

 Erelyes said:

Not saying everyone needs RE001 adrenalines, but Supercats and retreads should be illegal... so should any tyres more than 7ish years old, the rubber goes to sh*t aftera while!

THIS. Old Toyo Proxes4 were one of two experiments with bad tyres. They went 80,000km...sideways...in an N/A. To the point that one rainy day in Mt Wellington had all four corners slide through a red light despite my best efforts. ABS locked up the moment I touched the pedal, and this is considering early braking because of the greasy road. Took the foot off, tried again, same problem...so I jammed my foot down and hoped for the best.

Car stopped halfway across the intersection.

Thank god they haven't a clue how to program traffic lights in Auckland, and there was no one else there! Because otherwise I'd be a t-bone victim.

Those things were always stepping out and behaving unpredictably. Not only were they a mediocre tyre, they were assumedly ancient as they were the hardest compound I've ever poked.

$150 a corner. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

Now I'm on RE050 directionals - they grip a little more confidently than the RE001s, but you pay for it. They are $235 a corner minimum! The adrenalins are a really nice compromise though Spend the extra $30 over an el cheapo POS and save yourself the grief of an unintentional whoopsie.

[funkytown]

have the Proxes4's myself, and they hang for dear life.. i think suspension set up plays a big part.

That siad i had them from the start of my own suspension modding process. and the car is getting "grippier and grippier".

I do agree though there are other tyres a lot better than the Proxes4's but they arent the shabbiest tool in the shed

[QRAF]

triangles are good if you have to get a wof and you can't wait.

nothing else never will i buy them again the name says it all triangle on a round tire.

horrible in the wet under steered on ever round about and couldn't drive on the motor way due to the constant noise they made over 80km.

I was glad to see them go

[Shale]

Yeah, the Triangles are definitely worse.

My Proxes4s would have been good as the tread design isn't horrible, but like I said mine were obviously old. When I poke a tyre with my fingernail, normally the rubber will give way. The Toyos BENT MUH FINGERNAILS

[QRAF]

I had ling longs on the mitsi, yeah i wrote that off.

they were just as bad as triangle.

I've learnt my lesson goodyear here i come.

[Scoobydoo]

First time ive read this thread.

The Adrenalins on the Spec C are still going strong... I'm liking them. I've taken it out on a few strops and they've held on everywhere.

On the GTB I had Toyo proxes 4 tyres which were pretty decent for the way I drove it. They may not have had the stickyness of a softer tyre but they lasted quite a long time. Don't ask me figures cos I don't know. They eventually got replaced by T1R's which I also liked, but didn't think they were much better than the Proxes 4, for the extra price you pay for them.

[ReubenH]

Lets all get triangle tyres. I hear they're the new circle.

On a seriose note. My adrenalins are 8 months old (and i paid $180/corner), i do allot of driving, and have max camber set up front. The insides are eaten out on one pair, and half way there on the other pair, they aren't actually doing all that bad considering. I would recomend symetricals though (I.e. 050's (not 050A's)), so half way through their life, you can switch them over to the other side of the car (take them off the wheels i mean) so you don't only eat one half of the tyre before throwing them out..

[ODB]

ling longs ftw

[Simon C]

You think RE050s hurt, wait until you try RE070s ($375 a corner!)

[Shale]

WANT.

[subieboy]

 ReubenH said:

Lets all get triangle tyres. I hear they're the new circle.

On a seriose note. My adrenalins are 8 months old (and i paid $180/corner), i do allot of driving, and have max camber set up front. The insides are eaten out on one pair, and half way there on the other pair, they aren't actually doing all that bad considering. I would recomend symetricals though (I.e. 050's (not 050A's)), so half way through their life, you can switch them over to the other side of the car (take them off the wheels i mean) so you don't only eat one half of the tyre before throwing them out..

Well your a nong then aren't you...

Why would you for normal road use on a legacy have max camber set up... for a race car OK fair enough, but road going???

You screw up your handling (normal roads are cambered to the outside for the most part), you mess with you braking by degrade your braking potential (especially in a disaster situation) because you are opnly really running on one part of the tyre etc and you decrease the life of your tires and suspension component by at least half

WHY???

[Jonnysnow]

so stoked i started this thread before i bought those triangles/ling longs hahah. think i'll end up getting some toyo t1r's as they seem to be the best bang for buck. thanks for all the info everyone

[ReubenH]

 subieboy']

[quote name='ReubenH said:

Lets all get triangle tyres. I hear they're the new circle.

On a seriose note. My adrenalins are 8 months old (and i paid $180/corner), i do allot of driving, and have max camber set up front. The insides are eaten out on one pair, and half way there on the other pair, they aren't actually doing all that bad considering. I would recomend symetricals though (I.e. 050's (not 050A's)), so half way through their life, you can switch them over to the other side of the car (take them off the wheels i mean) so you don't only eat one half of the tyre before throwing them out..

/quote]

Well your a nong then aren't you...

Why would you for normal road use on a legacy have max camber set up... for a race car OK fair enough, but road going???

You screw up your handling (normal roads are cambered to the outside for the most part), you mess with you braking by degrade your braking potential (especially in a disaster situation) because you are opnly really running on one part of the tyre etc and you decrease the life of your tires and suspension component by at least half

WHY???

FFS, piss off. max camber on a factory subie is only about -1.1º anyway. You wouldn't give a **** if it was set to say, .8 or .9º, but hey, 1.1º, holy ****!

[Guest]

I'm in need of a set of RE070's (ouch) anyone know of someone who has them in stock at a decent price? My usual supplier can't get any till march 2010!!

[Shale]

Call BG, they seem to be able to magic many things in

[subieboy]

 ReubenH']

[quote name='ReubenH said:

Lets all get triangle tyres. I hear they're the new circle.

On a seriose note. My adrenalins are 8 months old (and i paid $180/corner), i do allot of driving, and have max camber set up front. The insides are eaten out on one pair, and half way there on the other pair, they aren't actually doing all that bad considering. I would recomend symetricals though (I.e. 050's (not 050A's)), so half way through their life, you can switch them over to the other side of the car (take them off the wheels i mean) so you don't only eat one half of the tyre before throwing them out..

/quote]

Well your a nong then aren't you...

Why would you for normal road use on a legacy have max camber set up... for a race car OK fair enough, but road going???

You screw up your handling (normal roads are cambered to the outside for the most part), you mess with you braking by degrade your braking potential (especially in a disaster situation) because you are opnly really running on one part of the tyre etc and you decrease the life of your tires and suspension component by at least half

WHY???

FFS, piss off. max camber on a factory subie is only about -1.1º anyway. You wouldn't give a **** if it was set to say, .8 or .9º, but hey, 1.1º, holy ****!

Some lite bedtime reading

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible_pg2.html

 

If you've read the wheel and tyre bible, you'll know that camber is the lateral tilt of the suspension (and hence the wheel and the tyre) to the road surface. Proper camber (along with toe and caster) make sure that the tyre tread surface is as flat as possible on the road surface. The problem with regular fixed-geometry suspension is that the camber is set up to be ideal when driving straight.

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg2.html

 

Alignment

This is the general term used to gloss over the next three points:

Caster

This is the forward (negative) or backwards (positive) tilt of the spindle steering axis. It is what causes your steering to 'self-centre'. Correct caster is almost always positive. Look at a bicycle - the front forks have a quite obvious rearward tilt to the handlebars, and so are giving positive caster. The whole point of it is to give the car (or bike) a noticeable centre point of the steering - a point where it's obvious the car will be going in straight line.

Camber

Camber is the tilt of the top of a wheel inwards or outwards (negative or positive). Proper camber (along with toe and caster) make sure that the tyre tread surface is as flat as possible on the road surface. If your camber is out, you'll get tyre wear. Too much negative camber (wheels tilt inwards) causes tread and tyre wear on the inside edge of the tyre. Consequently, too much positive camber causes wear on the outside edge.

Negative camber is what counteracts the tendency of the inside wheel during a turn to lean out from the centre of the vehicle. 0 or Negative camber is almost always desired. Positive camber would create handling problems.

The technical reason for this is because when the tyres on the inside of the turn have negative camber, they will tend to go toward 0 camber, using the contact patch more efficiently during the turn. If the tyres had positive camber, during a turn, the inside wheels would tend to even more positive camber, compromising the efficiency of the contact patch because the tyre would effectively only be riding on its outer edge.

Toe in & out

'Toe' is the term given to the left-right alignment of the front wheels relative to each other. Toe-in is where the front edge of the wheels are closer together than the rear, and toe-out is the opposite. Toe-in counteracts the tendency for the wheels to toe-out under power, like hard acceleration or at motorway speeds (where toe-in disappears). Toe-out counteracts the tendency for the front wheels to toe-in when turning at motorway speeds. It's all a bit bizarre and contradictory, but it does make a difference. A typical symptom of too much toe-in will be excessive wear and feathering on the outer edges of the tyre tread section. Similarly, too much toe-out will cause the same feathering wear patterns on the inner edges of the tread pattern.

A reader of my site emailed me this which is a nice description of toe-in and toe-out.

As a front-wheel-drive car pulls itself forwards, the wheels will tend to pivot arount the king-pins, and thus towards the center of the car. To ensure they end up straight ahead, they should sit with a slight toe-out when at rest.

A rear-wheel-drive car pushes itself forward, and the front wheels are rotated by friction... thus they will tend to want to trail the king-pins, and therefor will want to splay apart. To ensure that they run parallel when rolling, they should be given some toe-in when at rest.

The perfect 4WD car will have neutral pressure on the front wheels, so have neither toe-in or toe-out... however very few companies make the perfect 4WD, so some will have a small amount to toe-in/out, depending on the dominant axle.

[ReubenH]

Subieboy. You really are a fucking twat.

[WRXER]

But he does have a valid point none the less, I don't even have max camber on the front and mine was setup for the track so for a road going vehicle I don't see the point either IMO. But hey each to their own,

[driftrex]

i have to agree, and im an ex alignment technician. no need to get so upset over someone trying to give you legitimate advice. if you chew the inside of tyres out that quick then you have too much negative camber, end of story.

but as said each to their own :

[Guest keltik]

Proxes 4's are still running nicely on my wagon. Great grip and decent lifespan for a reasonable price. Only concern is if you start sliding in them, the tread disappears very quickly as the edges of the treads just shear off. Also very quiet. Theres a massive difference between my Michelins and my Toyos in terms of road noise.

My observation from the last 6 years of buying tires: If you want something to last long, look for good treadwear rating and big square tread blocks with a nice shoulder. If you want wet weather performance and quiter running, get something with nice angular pointy tread blocks.

Keltiks top 6 of tire brand he's actually bought and used to destruction (based on relative cost, grip, road noise and price(on an exclusively road car)):

1. BF Goodrich 215/45 R17

2. Toyo Proxes 4 215/40 R17

3. Roadstone/Nexen N3000 215/45 R17

4. Maxxis something 225/45 R18

5. Goodyear Eagle F1 205/55 R16

[Guest]

 driftrex said:

i have to agree, and im an ex alignment technician. no need to get so upset over someone trying to give you legitimate advice. if you chew the inside of tyres out that quick then you have too much negative camber, end of story.

but as said each to their own :

If you have camber and toe the car will wear a heck of a lot faster than if you have just camber. Camber wears tyres a "bit" but toe as well will wear them "a lot"