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Twin scroll garrett fail


Loren

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21 hours ago, pl0x said:

Glad to hear.

 

Do you know if it's still choked slightly with the 0.63?
I'm tossing up if I should try a SS .63 or .82 housing, save me getting the waste gate divide made too.

 

I don't know about the back pressure as his lines kept melting... not sure how that works exactly, he mentioned using a rubber line from the exhaust to the sensor,

and they all got melted the last time the car was on the dyno.

 

It is spooling pretty well by the feel of it now, and the top end is good... so it's hard to imagine that it's restricted, but I am just speculating. Your car might

behave differently of course... different cam profiles etc.

 

 

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Rubber at the start is a terrible idea. Copper capillary tube works pretty well. Use that for the majority of the line then transition to rubber closer to the sensor. That's how I did my old one and it worked sweet for a few years. 

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44 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

Rubber at the start is a terrible idea. Copper capillary tube works pretty well. Use that for the majority of the line then transition to rubber closer to the sensor. That's how I did my old one and it worked sweet for a few years. 

 

Agreed, very weird thing to do. I have two ports at the base of the up pipe... currently both have a thermocouple in them, but I will probably put a pressure sensor in one of them at some point.

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3 hours ago, Loren said:

 

I don't know about the back pressure as his lines kept melting... not sure how that works exactly, he mentioned using a rubber line from the exhaust to the sensor,

and they all got melted the last time the car was on the dyno.

 

It is spooling pretty well by the feel of it now, and the top end is good... so it's hard to imagine that it's restricted, but I am just speculating. Your car might

behave differently of course... different cam profiles etc.

 

 

Should be able to see it in the graph somewhat, although won't know it's the housing without back pressure data

What's the boost now?

 

Your's spooled earlier and had more torque than mine either way so different, but still interesting results considering a in theory larger twin scroll genuine Garrett housing.

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4 hours ago, pl0x said:

Should be able to see it in the graph somewhat, although won't know it's the housing without back pressure data

What's the boost now?

 

Your's spooled earlier and had more torque than mine either way so different, but still interesting results considering a in theory larger twin scroll genuine Garrett housing.

 

I never thought it was choked at all based on the amount of power it makes and the fact that it makes good power up to the redline.

The constant heat damage to the headers is the only thing that has made me suspect there is a back pressure problem... but it could

just as easily be that the temps are normal and the headers were just old and worn out.

 

Still no dyno chart due to a power outage at the tuners all day.

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Sorry to hijack, but what additional info do you get from measuring egt over egbp (or vice versa)?

Is one of them more useful than the other or better bang for buck (so to say)?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

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This is a very interesting read. I've always felt the TS on Subaru's have been underwhelming.
 

For what its worth, my cheap knockoff GT3076r with an A/R 0.82 housing on it seems to stand up pretty damn good. Very comparable to your 0.63 housing. When I was tossing up on either the .63 vs .82 hot side the overwhelming evidence of the EJ platform loving the ability to breath made me go for the larger housing. In the states they seem to toss the larger .82 ar on everything. 

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21 minutes ago, A_J_T said:

This is a very interesting read. I've always felt the TS on Subaru's have been underwhelming.
 

 

The subaru headers are just too long it seems... I think the factory system is probably okay as they would have done a lot of R&D

and got everything match perfectly.

 

Quote

For what its worth, my cheap knockoff GT3076r with an A/R 0.82 housing on it seems to stand up pretty damn good. Very comparable to your 0.63 housing. When I was tossing up on either the .63 vs .82 hot side the overwhelming evidence of the EJ platform loving the ability to breath made me go for the larger housing.

 

The GT3076r is smaller than the GTX3076r... which might explain that? I think the 0.82 would be too laggy for me... probably really good for a track car though.

 

 

Quote

In the states they seem to toss the larger .82 ar on everything. 

 

True, but they have a 2.5 and AVCS.

Edited by Loren
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9 minutes ago, Loren said:

The GT3076r is smaller than the GTX3076r... which might explain that? I think the 0.82 would be too laggy for me... probably really good for a track car though.

Ahh yes of course, my mistake. 

 

 

 
 
1
10 minutes ago, Loren said:

The subaru headers are just too long it seems... I think the factory system is probably okay as they would have done a lot of R&D

and got everything match perfectly.

I think you have a really good point there. Front mount turbos with custom manifolds seem to benefit more in the TS world 

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3 hours ago, Jono24 said:

Sorry to hijack, but what additional info do you get from measuring egt over egbp (or vice versa)?

Is one of them more useful than the other or better bang for buck (so to say)?

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 

 

You would be better off with an egt sensor as the temperature can be too high for many reasons... including high egbp,

but the egbp should not change unless something in the exhaust changes... it will change across the rev range... but that's all. 

Edited by Loren
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On 5/06/2019 at 7:36 PM, Loren said:

I think the 0.82 would be too laggy for me... probably really good for a track car though.

 

 

Interesting thread Loren! Did you end up with a divided or single entry uppipe flange?

I remember RAC doing tons of testing years ago and ended up somewhere similar to where you are now.

 

I made the .82 choice years ago when Tony had a 0.63, or some aftermarket 0.72 size housing he found. Compared to Tony's car, my 82 housing was bogging in third on tight corner exits and didnt provide enough top end to make up the difference on the straights, so i'd drop back about car length on every tight corner which added up to 2-3 seconds/lap. So it was either shift to second gear and lose time on the 2-3 shift, or bog in third. The 63 was faster simply by being able to stay in third. So I went back to the 63...

 

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Hi Matt.

 

5 hours ago, Optical said:

Interesting thread Loren! Did you end up with a divided or single entry uppipe flange?

I remember RAC doing tons of testing years ago and ended up somewhere similar to where you are now.

 

I stuck with the divided up pipe all the way to the turbo... figured there would still be some benefits from less

pulse interference. Whether it's that or the headers, the spool is better anyway. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Optical said:

I made the .82 choice years ago when Tony had a 0.63, or some aftermarket 0.72 size housing he found. Compared to Tony's car, my 82 housing was bogging in third on tight corner exits and didnt provide enough top end to make up the difference on the straights, so i'd drop back about car length on every tight corner which added up to 2-3 seconds/lap. So it was either shift to second gear and lose time on the 2-3 shift, or bog in third. The 63 was faster simply by being able to stay in third. So I went back to the 63...

 

 

Good to know... it helps to confirm my thinking then. Something I have discovered is just how meaningless a dyno chart is in some respects.

The divided 1.01 and single entry 0.63 with both spool almost the same on paper, but couldn't be different on the road.

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