IZichard

Fuel price opinion/rant thread

Recommended Posts

I figured I would start a thread on this since I am interested to hear what everyone's opinion on rising fuel price and disparity between regions. It seems to be a bit of a hot topic on all the 'news' websites at the moment as they love a bit of fearmongering. Also i'm sick of hearing people complain about this on facebook with wild claims and no supporting evidence for anything, I hold the members on here to a higher standard.

 

Let's try not to play the political blame game in this thread "labour this, national that" the government as a whole plays a part in this but I can't be bothered reading why you think it is the fault of a specific party.

 

For simplicity, everyone should use 91 as the baseline if mentioning fuel price as it gets confusing if some people are talking 95/98 and some 91. Also 98 isn't widely available in the South so it is harder to draw a direct comparison.

 

As with many of you, i love driving my car and the rising cost of fuel just makes it a little harder to enjoy doing this. I'll be damned if ever let it stop me though! I'm sure everyone is aware that this also affects us on a much greater scale than just initial cost at the pump, fuel/transport cost is a component of everything we purchase on a daily basis. Rising fuel prices directly relates to rising 'cost of living,' which is another hot topic of the moment.

 

To start here is the fuel price in my town (Wanaka) as of 22/05/18, the Caltex in town is priced identically. It is quite comical really.

244.9c

zAQAa9tl.jpg

 

Interestingly around a year ago there was an article in our local paper interviewing one of the smaller self service fuel stations in town, in which he stated that it cost him approximately 3c per litre of fuel to transport it to Wanaka from the North island. From what I can tell on Gaspy the approximate price in Wellington today is 226.9-229.9c; you don't need to be a maths wizz to realise that there is a whole lot more than 3c being added on to the fuel price after it leaves Wellington heading South. Food for thought.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/89383547/fuel-prices-what-costs-go-into-a-litre-of-petrol

This is an interesting link from a while ago that lets you try and guess the distributing of cost in the price of fuel at the pump. I challenge you to try it before reading the next link.

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/owning-a-car/fuel-prices-and-types/petrol/

Here is a link that states that the fuel excise tax which is 66.484c then GST is taxed on top of this and the rest of the fuel price. Who doesn't love tax on tax. I'm not sure if this outdated or if things have changed if anyone has updated information I would love to see it.

 

 

Another thing that i'm sure will annoy a few of you. I'm pretty tired of hearing Aucklanders complain about the new fuel tax being imposed on them. The money is to be put towards improving public transport in and around the city which is something that everyone living there has the chance to benefit from. If you have ever been overseas (especially to Europe) you will have probably had the privilege of using a well set up public transport system, they have the potential to be very convenient and save the passengers significant amounts of time and money! So sure it is a small extra cost on you now but it will (if spent well) lead to great improvements to your city's infrastructure.

Also your roads may be congested but they are so good in comparison to the South island! I did a lot of driving around Auckland, the Coromandel and Tauranga earlier in the year and those roads are so smooth and well kept in comparison to what I am used to.

To top that off, even with the extra fuel taxes, you will still be paying significantly less than those in the south. So quit grumbling about it.

 

 

So post up your opinion/rant on the whole situation or tell me why i'm a d*ck for telling you to quit grumbling, i'm interested to hear anyone's thoughts.

 

I didn't really proof read this... sorry if it doesn't make sense

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just really need to rant for a second sorry lol. 

 

This is one thing that really pissed me off about labours decision. How can you just increase (tax) the cost of fuel without properly working out the flow on effects to the cost of living. Its always the hard working middle class that will get shafted with this kind of thing. 

 

Example:

Usual family has at least 2 cars they run. Take a 50L tank on each, and take the 22 cent increase in petrol price. Most people fill up once a week. 52 weeks in a year so: 52 x 0.22 x 2 x 50 = $1144 per year per average 2 car family! That's not even considering the cost of living increases as a result. What pisses me off even more is that other industries will choose to use this as an excuse to increase prices further (just the way the world works), which makes it much worse and even more unregulated.

 

I can't believe they haven't thought about or published this kind of stuff.

 

The icing on the cake is that the latest report shows the government has so much surplus cash as well, inherited from a well setup previous government of course..

 

Oh and let's not start about the under $400 import tax as well... 

 

Let's just tax the living sh#% out of everything.. 

 

Rant over.. lol

 

But in all honesty, it would be amazing if someone could work out and breakdown where and to whom each cent per L goes.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I say we all chip in a grand each and buy all the e85 we can get. I haven’t done the maths on what profits/when. but don’t worry about the maths the point is we will have a lot of e85 :D 

P.s if you wanna save $ on your daily just get a cheap diesel. I get nearly 800kms per tank for around $60 :) if it goes up to $80 per tank It still beats the petrol mileage by around double innit :) 

oh yeah someone’s probably gonna day “diesel kms cost blah blah” 

And you know what I’m going to say to that riiiight ? :P 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Niran said:

Example:

Usual family has at least 2 cars they run. Take a 50L tank on each, and take the 22 cent increase in petrol price. Most people fill up once a week. 52 weeks in a year so: 52 x 0.22 x 2 x 50 = $1144 per year per average 2 car family! That's not even considering the cost of living increases as a result. What pisses me off even more is that other industries will choose to use this as an excuse to increase prices further (just the way the world works), which makes it much worse and even more unregulated.

I'd say your estimate is a little off as you will probably find as most people don't fill up when the tank is literally empty so 40-45L per week per car would be a more reasonable estimate. But it is only an estimate and I see your point. To refute, families in Christchurch, Dunedin and Invercargill are already paying more then Aucklanders will be after the tax and I assure you, they are not getting paid any more than the Aucklanders.

 

Interestingly this is why a tax model where spending is taxed tends to cause more harm on lower income families. Increased income tax brackets on higher earners and reducing tax on spending goes a long way towards lessening the wealth gap and improving average quality of life throughout all of the 'classes.' Ultimately it takes more of a hit on the wealthiest few percent but one could argue that the difference between earning $1,000,000 and $1,001,000 is minuscule compared to the difference between earning $10,000 and $10,010.

Everyone HAS to spend at least a minimum amount to survive.

 

Neither National or Labour are really making any difference towards the wealth inequality in this country, poverty is a difficult cycle to control. Like you said Labours method makes it seem like a good idea in the short term but really just raises the cost of living and brings it back to square one in the long term. 

 

34 minutes ago, Niran said:

But in all honesty, it would be amazing if someone could work out and breakdown where and to whom each cent per L goes.

Did you click the first stuff link in my first post, it does exactly this. Take the test and see if you can correctly guess where each cent goes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/22/2018 at 8:59 PM, Niran said:

I just really need to rant for a second sorry lol. 

 

This is one thing that really pissed me off about labours decision. How can you just increase (tax) the cost of fuel without properly working out the flow on effects to the cost of living. Its always the hard working middle class that will get shafted with this kind of thing. 

 

Example:

Usual family has at least 2 cars they run. Take a 50L tank on each, and take the 22 cent increase in petrol price. Most people fill up once a week. 52 weeks in a year so: 52 x 0.22 x 2 x 50 = $1144 per year per average 2 car family! That's not even considering the cost of living increases as a result. What pisses me off even more is that other industries will choose to use this as an excuse to increase prices further (just the way the world works), which makes it much worse and even more unregulated.

 

I can't believe they haven't thought about or published this kind of stuff.

 

The icing on the cake is that the latest report shows the government has so much surplus cash as well, inherited from a well setup previous government of course..

 

Oh and let's not start about the under $400 import tax as well... 

 

Let's just tax the living sh#% out of everything.. 

 

Rant over.. lol

 

But in all honesty, it would be amazing if someone could work out and breakdown where and to whom each cent per L goes.

If your talking about the Auckland fuel tax I agree. The tax also effects the people with lower income more than anyone else and those people are LESS likely to use trams to travel to the airport. Poor people are paying more for fuel for rich people to travel to the airport.

Another thing I cannot get my head around is Labour ditching oil exploration in NZ. Labout claims she is doing it for the environment however we are just going to buy oil from some middle eastern countries (demand still exists) and get it shipped over in a huge gas guzzling ship.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Subru said:

Another thing I cannot get my head around is Jacinda ditching oil exploration in NZ. She claims she is doing it for the environment however we are just going to buy oil from some middle eastern countries (demand still exists) and get it shipped over in a huge gas guzzling ship. Its worse for the environment but makes her look 'good' as well as possible price increases. New Zealand loses, she wins.

Remember this is a coalition government, I am just speculating but that seems like a decision probably driven by the green party. I am by no means trying to defend Jacinda, she is far from my ideal Prime Minister but you have to remember she is largely a figure head, not every decision is made by her to make her look good. These are decisions made by a coalition of three different parties that all have to make compromises with one another. Easy to blame the figure head but the blame truly rests on more shoulders than just hers.

 

Also making personal attacks in politics is just silly, hate the decision that's fine but hate the person and you are missing the point.

Edited by IZichard
plural, plurals
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, THUNDA said:

I say we all chip in a grand each and buy all the e85 we can get. I haven’t done the maths on what profits/when. but don’t worry about the maths the point is we will have a lot of e85 :D 

P.s if you wanna save $ on your daily just get a cheap diesel. I get nearly 800kms per tank for around $60 :) if it goes up to $80 per tank It still beats the petrol mileage by around double innit :) 

oh yeah someone’s probably gonna day “diesel kms cost blah blah” 

And you know what I’m going to say to that riiiight ? :P 

You might be on to something there mate! I see a Subaru corn powered future ahead of us all.:cool:

 

How much are you paying at the pump for diesel in the North? As you can see it is pretty expensive where I live at 182.9c.

 

Does anyone know if diesels are being incorporated into the Auckland fuel tax? Is diesel getting the additional 22c at the pump too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@IZichard Literally read the stuff article 5 mins after posting my comment haha doh :P

 

Did the checker thing and came up reasonably close! 

 

These are the actual costs (apparently) based on 200c.

 
 Fuel itself: 58c
 GST: 26c
 Other taxes: 66c
 Shipping: 4c
 Margin: 46c
 
so tax makes up nearly 50% of the total value.. And margin is nearly the same price as the fuel itself..
 
Sigh
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Niran said:

@IZichard Literally read the stuff article 5 mins after posting my comment haha doh :P

 

Did the checker thing and came up reasonably close! 

 

These are the actual costs (apparently) based on 200c.

 
 Fuel itself: 58c
 GST: 26c
 Other taxes: 66c
 Shipping: 4c
 Margin: 46c
 
so tax makes up nearly 50% of the total value.. And margin is nearly the same price as the fuel itself..
 
Sigh

 

I like how they made a second tax for it and just called it "other" lol

1 hour ago, IZichard said:

You might be on to something there mate! I see a Subaru corn powered future ahead of us all.:cool:

 

How much are you paying at the pump for diesel in the North? As you can see it is pretty expensive where I live at 182.9c.

 

Does anyone know if diesels are being incorporated into the Auckland fuel tax? Is diesel getting the additional 22c at the pump too?

 

Cant remember as I dont really check the prices i just fill it and pay

might be like 1.40 or 1.50 here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Niran said:

so tax makes up nearly 50% of the total value.. And margin is nearly the same price as the fuel itself..

 
Sigh

 

Made me lol. I think it is pretty common globally for the tax component to be greater than the fuel component of the price. I don't think we are the only ones in that boat.

 

6 minutes ago, THUNDA said:

I like how they made a second tax for it and just called it "other" lol

 

Cant remember as I dont really check the prices i just fill it and pay

might be like 1.40 or 1.50 here?

 

Yeah I usually do the same, i'm not going to let the price stop me from doing what I want so i usually don't look. I pay monthly on a fuel card for a self service station so i don't even see the price I have paid until I get the bill at the end of the month anyway. 

 

I've only been paying attention to the main stations in town lately as I drive past them going to work each day and I have been finding it interesting watching it go up.

 

Wasn't diesel under a dollar around middle of last year, or am I delusional?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, IZichard said:

Remember this is a coalition government, I am just speculating but that seems like a decision probably driven by the green party. I am by no means trying to defend Jacinda, she is far from my ideal Prime Minister but you have to remember she is largely a figure head, not every decision is made by her to make her look good. These are decisions made by a coalition of three different parties that all have to make compromises with one another. Easy to blame the figure head but the blame truly rests on more shoulders than just hers.

 

Also making personal attacks in politics is just silly, hate the decision that's fine but hate the person and you are missing the point.

I agree its a coalition of losers which doesn't help and im not trying to hate or attack on anyone but when it comes down to government passing stupid stuff, I still blame the prime minister as at the end of the day she is the prime minister and she is responsible. She is the one voted in (kinda) and voters want her to make good decisions and so far I do not know anyone who think stopping oil exploration in NZ is a good idea. All prime ministers deserve criticism when necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its a big world out there..

You could always find another country with cheap fuel to live in..

Try the USA it has cheap gas and needs more skilled immigrants..

Seriously though..Fuel prices are like interest rates,they yoyo up and down for lots of reasons.

A discovery of oil locally wont mean cheaper prices at the pump for Subaru drivers,its a bit more complex than that..

 

Subru..You should get over the result of the last election..it happened that your lot lost..Move on and look positively to the future..

 

For what its worth I use 50 litres of gas a month..so no hardship here..

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, pedro said:

Subru..You should get over the result of the last election..it happened that your lot lost..Move on and look positively to the future..

I dont care about the election. I care about the issue im talking about, I dont care who is in government. whats wrong with criticizing decisions? lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there were thought out, researched and detailed plans behind these decisions that made sense. Then awesome, we could read and back that based on evidence and proper planning  / foresight. 

 

What seems to happen (and this could just be the media as well, since that's all we see day in and day out), is decisions made without a lot of thought. Like the oil exploration.. Yes, oil will eventually run out, that doesn't mean you go cold turkey and don't find every last drop on our shores just to appear 'clean and green'. Thats like saying i'm sitting above a pot of gold but not going to dig it up because i want maintain a certain image of sustainability. Not the greatest analogy but you get the point. Should have been a proposal about how they were going to reduce oil consumption by XXXX year, and how they would transition out the use of existing NZ oil supplies after exhausting our natural resources. That would have been smarter business.

 

Back to the fuel topic - I guess its just the feeling of being ripped off by all the players in the game. I'm taking the numbers shown online with a grain of salt. Businesses always have smart ways of hiding there profit margins. Still think their profit margins are pretty higher and monopolized by BP etc. as well. We heard how much profit they stated they made and it was something ludicrous (100s of millions). Z quote off stuff business - 'Petrol giant Z Energy defends industry competition as it announces a $263m profit'. 2016 BP new quote 'The New Zealand division of British Petroleum, one of the world's largest oil and gas companies, lifted annual profit 15 per cent in 2016 to $147 million'. Government regulation should be standard for this commodity.

 

What would be great to see is how the 'other taxes' are spent by the government. Not just - roading, ACC, etc etc. But dollars against all the categories claimed it goes to. Easy to throw items on there to validate the tax, but what would really tell the true story, is how much the government earned from the 'other tax' per year, and how much was actually spent on the categories they state it goes to. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this tax on fuel is rubbish, adding the extra tax to akld people is fine with me if i actually saw some sort of improvements in public transport. They say to use the public transport in Auckland but it is still cheaper for me to drive into work and park in a public car park and get home. I take a little run around car for daily use so it is cheap on gas...i can see the price of public transport going up soon as well because the fuel price is too high to maintain the current costs and profits for companies. You have to wonder who does the research for the govt when it comes to adding taxes and things to stuff, I can see food prices will go up and it will just be a chain reaction. Govt don't care as they get free fuel anyway for the govt provided cars and taxis they use....

 

ggrrrrrr thats my rant over for the day!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2018 at 10:53 AM, boon said:

 

Bruh I don't think you fully understand how NZ's government works.

Okay, okay. Can u elaborate?

I think i know enough to make valid arguments. I agree I should prolly stop the politics on cs forums tho lol.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2018 at 11:15 AM, mlracing.co.nz said:

Saw a snap yesterday that showed one place over 3$ already

Time to buy a new daily. .  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Subru said:

Okay, okay. Can u elaborate? xD

I think i know enough to make valid arguments. I agree I should prolly stop the politics on cs forums tho lol.

 

This is a massive side discussion, but other than "fronting" for the government, what role do you think the PM has in any decision making that goes on?

Do you genuinely think Jacinda just wakes up one morning and is like "Tax petrol more! Stop seabed oil exploration! Do the things!" and the government just goes and does it?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, boon said:

 

This is a massive side discussion, but other than "fronting" for the government, what role do you think the PM has in any decision making that goes on?

Do you genuinely think Jacinda just wakes up one morning and is like "Tax petrol more! Stop seabed oil exploration! Do the things!" and the government just goes and does it?

Fully awear of that, thats why I said "PM" because she represents labour. Ofc she doesnt do everything lol. She is still responsible as PM. Maybe I should have said Labour instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Subru said:

Fully awear of that, thats why I said "PM" because she represents labour. Ofc she doesnt do everything lol. She is still responsible as PM. Maybe I should have said Labour instead.

 

Yes. Labour, NZF and the Greens to some extent. In other words, a little over half of New Zealand, as they put them there. Do you think if Jacinda secretly personally didn't like some of these decisions, she has ANY power whatsoever to prevent them going ahead? How on earth is she responsible for any of it?

 

The Prime Minister is required to adhere to the decisions of cabinet. That is how a democracy works. Her job is to front these decisions and put the best spin on them that she can.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pointing fingers at Jacinda is like saying ftp to a cop. Why bad mouth the face that represents the decision making. I am sure as stated she has an input into the ideas provided but definitely does not have final decision. 

 

Question though for someone that doesn't know much about this whole thing, why is for example Australia still paying approx $1.67 for petrol when we are so close paying double! . is this purely just because of the NZ taxes that show as "other' do these not apply in other country's ? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Inked said:

Question though for someone that doesn't know much about this whole thing, why is for example Australia still paying approx $1.67 for petrol when we are so close paying double! . is this purely just because of the NZ taxes that show as "other' do these not apply in other country's ? 

 

This! Would love to know as well. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.