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GCG Bolt on turbos


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2 hours ago, Gripless said:

PBMS did have a drop in TD05/06 single scroll for around 300kw.

 

Realistically my engine isn't capable of 300kw so I'm not considering pushing it that far. Just after something to give more than the VF22 without losing the raw feel. Or maybe I should just stick with the VF22.

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2 hours ago, Gripless said:

But dont you want a 300kw rated turbo so you aren’t pushing it and keeping it running in a nice efficient zone so it doesn’t heat up.

Given earlier you were mentioning a big turbo running at low boost is going to make the car feel like a na V8, is the reason I am wary of going to a turbo that big. But thinking something a touch smaller maybe more what I'm after. 

 

1 hour ago, boon said:

Going to an aftermarket turbo for about 10kw more than a tapped-out VF22 will manage... seems counter intuitive. My 2c anyway.

I understand that but given at 220-230kw and 23psi the VF22 is basically a hairdryer i was thinking something like a GCG GTX2867R at less boost will make a bit more power or similar but be more efficient doing it and keep things a bit colder as @Gripless was referring to. I just don't think there is much point in going too big but I could be wrong.

 

It's just ideas and glad of any feedback.  But it seems not many people have used those GCG bolt on turbos. 

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1 hour ago, ginganinja said:

Given earlier you were mentioning a big turbo running at low boost is going to make the car feel like a na V8, is the reason I am wary of going to a turbo that big. But thinking something a touch smaller maybe more what I'm after. 

 

what's wrong with a V8? 

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18 hours ago, ginganinja said:

I understand that but given at 220-230kw and 23psi the VF22 is basically a hairdryer i was thinking something like a GCG GTX2867R at less boost will make a bit more power or similar but be more efficient doing it and keep things a bit colder as @Gripless was referring to. I just don't think there is much point in going too big but I could be wrong.

 

 

Your engine doesn't really care if the turbo is a hairdryer. As long as it's not knocking, power is power is power. The air gets really really hot as soon as the spark plug goes off anyway.

 

I had 231kw from a VF34 for years, no problems, and that was with a topmount, on a stock V7 longblock.

 

I don't know if I fully understand your goals... you only want less than 250wkw, and you want it to be... deliberately laggy... so it doesn't feel like a big lazy V8? Sounds like a TD06 is the turbo for you, ancient pieces of s*** that they are.

 

There doesn't seem to be much point in going to a probably quite expensive Garrett GTX-based turbo when you could achieve everything you want to with a Kinugawa TD06.

 

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@boon yep fair call regarding heat, but lower IAT is always nice. My Vf22 is currently making 226kw at wheels and is super fun but it has started to whine and upon further inspection it has a reasonable amount of shaft play end to end. So it looks like I could be replacing it anyway. And rather than go VF22 again I am considering other options and go a fraction bigger.

 

It's not that I don't want more than 250kw. In fact it would be awesome to have more. Its more that being a V5 open deck block I am wary of pushing it much past that point. And no I don't want it deliberately laggy, in fact i want to have similar if not better response than the VF22 but potentially a bit more top end also. I am interested to know if a later model turbo such as the GTX2867R would achieve this. which is why I have not considered anything as big as a TD06.

 

It seems everyone else thinks I want a gigantic turbo and run it at 30percent of its potential, which is not the case.

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30 minutes ago, ginganinja said:

@boon yep fair call regarding heat, but lower IAT is always nice. My Vf22 is currently making 226kw at wheels and is super fun but it has started to whine and upon further inspection it has a reasonable amount of shaft play end to end. So it looks like I could be replacing it anyway. And rather than go VF22 again I am considering other options and go a fraction bigger.

 

It's not that I don't want more than 250kw. In fact it would be awesome to have more. Its more that being a V5 open deck block I am wary of pushing it much past that point. And no I don't want it deliberately laggy, in fact i want to have similar if not better response than the VF22 but potentially a bit more top end also. I am interested to know if a later model turbo such as the GTX2867R would achieve this. which is why I have not considered anything as big as a TD06.

 

It seems everyone else thinks I want a gigantic turbo and run it at 30percent of its potential, which is not the case.

 

This is all considering that a brand new VF22 or any VF series turbo costs over 2k. So not much more for a GTX based turbo.

 

However if it is a waste of time going to a slightly bigger turbo I will keep my eyes peeled for a tidy second hand VF34 or VF36 and use the P20 rear housing on it.

 

Or I get the VF22 rebuilt but not sure by whom.

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Try track down a second one and send it to Murch for a spruce up with a slightly bigger comp wheel and a clipped turbine wheel if he thinks it’ll need it and you’ll be perfectly happy from the sound of it. Obviously he takes his sweet time to get through his work but he seems to do a good job and has good results. 

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59 minutes ago, Andy_Mac said:

Try track down a second one and send it to Murch for a spruce up with a slightly bigger comp wheel and a clipped turbine wheel if he thinks it’ll need it and you’ll be perfectly happy from the sound of it. Obviously he takes his sweet time to get through his work but he seems to do a good job and has good results. 

Well thats another option. Not sure how to get hold of Murch though if I go down that track.

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35 minutes ago, ginganinja said:

Well thats another option. Not sure how to get hold of Murch though if I go down that track.

 

I've just given him a ring a few times to discuss options back when I was looking into one of his modified OEM turbo’s

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My 10 cents. 

 

Since you're aiming for the mid 200kws, a murch turbo may be the good middle ground option. It'll still be 'new' (refreshed), larger comp blade and a good trimmed wheel. He can alternatively recore it entirely with his own core as well and make it something else other than a VF22. 

Personally I think you're paying a lot (says the guy who spent 5k in fabrication work for his turbo kit alone lol) if you go the in GCG direction. It's a $3000+ turbo. 

Imho, I'd by FAR prefer pulling that engine out, take those heads off and get some cams and $500 worth of porting to clean up the castings and maybe get some flow once getting that turbo refreshed. 

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@Dairusire good points there and upon this whole discussion i think getting Steve murch to look at the VF22 and modify it is most likely the way to go. Cost vs potential power gains and goals.

 

Not really interested in pulling the motor apart to do head work etc at this point in time. 

 

Overall I think its been a great discussion and good to get different feedback and points of view.

 

Regarding prices PBMS do the GCG turbos for about $2600 incl gst. 

Just now, ginganinja said:

@Dairusire good points there and upon this whole discussion i think getting Steve murch to look at the VF22 and modify it is most likely the way to go. Cost vs potential power gains and goals.

 

Not really interested in pulling the motor apart to do head work etc at this point in time. 

 

Overall I think its been a great discussion and good to get different feedback and points of view.

 

Regarding prices PBMS do the GCG turbos for about $2600 incl gst. 

Last question. How do I find Steve Murchs phone number? I can't find it online anywhere.

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45 minutes ago, ginganinja said:

@Dairusire good points there and upon this whole discussion i think getting Steve murch to look at the VF22 and modify it is most likely the way to go. Cost vs potential power gains and goals.

 

Not really interested in pulling the motor apart to do head work etc at this point in time. 

 

Overall I think its been a great discussion and good to get different feedback and points of view.

 

Regarding prices PBMS do the GCG turbos for about $2600 incl gst. 

Last question. How do I find Steve Murchs phone number? I can't find it online anywhere.

 

I'll PM you it. 

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Go to Diesel and Turbo on Waione Street and see what the best price they could on a new VF turbo is. I know someone that

paid a lot less than $2000 for a new VF36 recently.

 

 

Edited by Loren
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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Gripless said:

I have a spare v11 turbo for parts if that helps build a hybrid. 
the exhaust side is twinscroll but some insides maybe good.

Is it a VF49?

 

38 minutes ago, Loren said:

Go to Diesel and Turbo on Waione Street and see what the best price they could on a new VF turbo is. I know someone that

paid a lot less than $2000 for a new VF36 recently.

 

 

Cheers will look into it.

Edited by ginganinja
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I saw on murch's Instagram he had done a ~5353 into a VF48 or 49. I'd be pretty interested seeing the results of that.

Seems his new turbos are performing really well on the 6 bangers, his older ones seem to choke on Subaru's but I'd be interested to see what the new ones are like.

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On 12/04/2021 at 11:41 AM, pl0x said:

I saw on murch's Instagram he had done a ~5353 into a VF48 or 49. I'd be pretty interested seeing the results of that.

Seems his new turbos are performing really well on the 6 bangers, his older ones seem to choke on Subaru's but I'd be interested to see what the new ones are like.

Excuse my ignorance but what is ~5353?

 

Appreciate everyone's ideas and inputs so far and I haven't spoken to murch yet, however I am leaning towards a stock subaru replacement and most likely sticking with another VF22 brand new. 

 

However, I am considering the idea of a New VF34 and putting the P20 rear housing on it. I know evowrx had some info on this in an old thread and apparently it works well. But has anyone else tried this? Would it be a better option?

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I am guessing a ~5353 means the internals of a vf53 into the housing of a vf48... why do that? no f***en idea. crack possibly.

 

Don't get a vf22... it's OLD OLD OLD.

Edited by Loren
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Loren said:

I am guessing a ~5353 means the internals of a vf53 into the housing of a vf48... why do that? no f***en idea. crack possibly.

 

Don't get a vf22... it's OLD OLD OLD.

Yer I am kind of torn between staying with VF22 as i know it is old technology but it is kind of relevant to the era of the old GC8 Ra's. That old school turbo feel. And I should be able to get one at not a bad price. It works for what I want out of the car and I have enjoyed the current VF22 so far.

 

But then I also like the idea of a late model bolt on turbo, but I am not looking to make huge power so that raises the question of staying with a later model VF or going to something like a smaller GCG or blouch. 

 

If not the VF22. out of interest what would you recommend for around 230-250kw.

 

Maybe I should just sit on it for a bit and look at it again in a month or so.

Edited by ginganinja
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12 hours ago, Loren said:

I am guessing a ~5353 means the internals of a vf53 into the housing of a vf48... why do that? no f***en idea. crack possibly.

 

Don't get a vf22... it's OLD OLD OLD.

 

I'm ‘almost’ completely certain that isn't what is meant by that, it's the comp and turbine wheel sizes. 53mm comp inducer and 53mm turbine exducer.

 

He had a post on insta a while back where he was putting a 5252 into a VF44 from a Legacy which he was super confident would be good for 250wkw which have smaller comp covers but the small TS turbine housing so a 5353 should easily do a bit north of 250wkw based on what he thinks

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