Matching Amps and Speakers

[RAYDEO]

We've all seen a sub box with 300Wrms on it. but what the hell does it actually mean?

and how do i know what (for want of a better term) "wattage" i need, to match my speakers to my amp/sub.

I know theres a few people out there that can explain, I used to know, but its been so long I'm starting to get a little confused.

I remember someone telling me once that what ever was written on the box in RMS, was absolute max, and RMS means crap all. So can comeone please elaborate?

Basicly what I want to do (and have done in my old cars) is run 1x 4 channel amp for the 4 door speakers (1x 6" components and 1x 6" standards) and another amp for the sub.

The sub is already being run by a sony 2x channel amp, so not going to play with that at the moment.

But, how do you match an amp to some speakers?

Help?

[markw336]

i would base the amp on the rms wattage aswell as your speakers so if you were looking for an amp for speakers which generally put out 40w rms low end to 80 or more top end in the 6" range i would get an amp that puts out 4x (x amount of rms wattage to match your speakers) to maximise the potential of those speakers

sorry in advance if this doesnt make much sence haha

[newsuba]

RMS = continuous power, not max.

Max = peak, meaninngless without a qualifying distortion figure (lower the better).

For matching you can check that the electrical paper specs (load impedance, power output v capability etc.) ensure the two will work together but the final test should be with your ears, listen to the combo.

For more details, Jason/Spark38 is the resident ICE expert.

He should be along soon...

[ODB]

run rears on factory wiring pump up fronts and bridge for the sub = the best sound.

Rear speakers largely just fill anyways and you want your SQ and loud in front speakers and in sub.

[rex-leggy]

 ODB said:

run rears on factory wiring pump up fronts and bridge for the sub = the best sound.

Rear speakers largely just fill anyways and you want your SQ and loud in front speakers and in sub.

+1

[Scoobydoo]

I'd decide what speakers you are going to use first, then you'll now what power to use. Now it's not all that important to match RMS values exactly, as you probably won't run the amp on full gain anyway, it's quite common to get an amp that is 60-100W RMS per channnel and that's more than enough for most speakers, I doubt you'd hear much audible difference between that, and an amp producing more.

For the sub amp, it's best to get one that is a monoblock, ie: a single channel. It can be either 4, 2 or 1-ohm, depending on the specs of your subwoofer.

My next audio install will comprise of a single 4-channel amp, 2 channels will go to front components (connected via passive crossovers), and 2 channels will go to the sub. Now that won't create ear-shattering bass, butdue to the amp that I have, will provide approx 250W RMS to a small 8" for some nice SQ.

I've never bothered installing rear speakers into a car of my own, but if I was to, I'd just connect them to the headunit, I wouldn't amp them. As has been said, unless you are running DVD 5.1 audio, rear speakers are just for fill anyway, and maybe for appeasing rear passengers. You want 90% of the music to come from in front of you.

Always use this analogy: When you go to a concert, you face the front, right? Where does the music come from?

[spark_38]

Paul explained it pretty well.

I've downsized my audio setup dramatically. It used to be three amps: 4-ch bridged to run woofers at 220W RMS per channel0, 2-ch to run tweeters at 65W per channel, monoblock to run 2x12" subs at 800W RMS. It was all Alpine gear. 9887 headunit. Type-R components and subs.

Now it's just a 4-ch amp running some 6.5 front components and a small 8" DD sub. 75Wx2 to speakers and approx 220W RMS to sub.

Sound wise it's not too bad, bass is still quite good - considering I went from 2x12"s to a single 8". And dropping speaker power from 220W/ch to 75W/ch - as above, anything over 60W RMS is sufficient for speakers. Given most headunits produce 16Wx4 RMS of clean power.

You can only focus on either mods for motorsport (track, auto cross) or sound system setup. Attempting both makes it impractical. For me it was too much hassle removing the sub box each time - as it was bloody heavy!

[Scoobydoo]

Yeah I had to get in before our "resident ICE expert" had his 2 cents haha.. thanks for agreeing with me

[ODB]

Lol u both just agreed with me ;D

[RAYDEO]

yeah, but as we know, BH Legacys are NOT track cars

[spark_38]

Ah in that case: I suggest a 2-ch amp to run front components. 100Wx2. A set of really nice front components. Leave the rears out.

A monoblock to run a few subs: 800-1200W should be sufficient, either 2x8", 2x10" or 1x12" sub - two 12" subs I've found to be overkill. Just get a single high quality one: Alpine Type-R or Type-X (or equivalent), not the cheap Sony Explode crap - stay well away!

I think someone has a set of Precision Power component speakers for sale, really nice, handmade I think, original RRP of around $1,500NZD. These can handle well over 100W continuous too.

Amps aren't as critical, the more expensive ones are far better built, usually have torodial transformers (less noise), and far better heatsinking to keep things cool. I've used Caliber and E-Audio - good amps if you can find some s/hand in good condition. Very well built to last many years.

I kinda miss having nice audio gear in the car, but since it was going to be used mainly for motorsport - there was a trade-off..

Going from Alpine gear to cheaper Pioneer. I definitely rate the Alpine stuff higher!

But in saying that I've got from mid-range gear to entry-level..... it would be like selling a Canon 60D to get the 550D

[calibre]

I definitely agree with the above, unless you carry around incredibly fussy audio critics in the back (even then who really cares, your driving) invest in the best front stage you can afford and run rears off head-unit if at all. And sound quality wise, if you like nice punchy 'upfront' sounding bass, 2x10's or even nice 8's will be ample as you can keep the box volume right down on a tight sealed twin box.

Agree with the Pioneer/ Alpine thing too, Alpine gear just has a different feel to it, the radio tuners generally pretty awesome, Ipod connectivity is better too imo and the amps and head-units overall just seem pretty bulletproof, where Pioneer seem to feel cheap in comparison, but you do pay for the privilege.

[Swindog]

Yep I agree and have always stuck by the loaded fronts, rears off the headunit (unless its a less than capable headunit) and a single 12"

I have some Fusion powerplants in the front at the mo but Im not happy with them. I miss my Infinitys.

PLUS it doesnt help my sub isnt boxed correctly.

[johnny5]

HU: alpine cda 9835

Components: infinity kappa 60.5cs in front

Rearfill: pioneer 4 inchs in the doors some sorta carbon kevlar things from pioneer there for the kids enjoyment run off the headunit

Amp: alpine mrv f 545

Sub: soundstream picasso 12 inch (need a new sub)

Actually all the gear is quite old but is all quality kit and has been in and out of a few cars but is pretty much all you need and is all matched quite well I think unless one of you gurus out there can point me in a better direction

[spark_38]

This is the sub I'm using: http://www.onlinecaraudio.co.nz/DD_LE308_Digital_Designs_8_Subwoofer_

It's quite good for a small 8" - in the car, it sounds like a much bigger sub, almost a 10"

I've just picked some of these up: http://www.onlinecaraudio.co.nz/Digital_Designs_DD_CS6_5

You won't find speakers for $200 that sound anywhere as good.

 johnny5 said:

HU: alpine cda 9835

Components: infinity kappa 60.5cs in front

Rearfill: pioneer 4 inchs in the doors some sorta carbon kevlar things from pioneer there for the kids enjoyment run off the headunit

Amp: alpine mrv f 545

Sub: soundstream picasso 12 inch (need a new sub)

Actually all the gear is quite old but is all quality kit and has been in and out of a few cars but is pretty much all you need and is all matched quite well I think unless one of you gurus out there can point me in a better direction

Good headunit, fronts and amp - if they still function well, don't replace them. As the newer stuff won't be built to anywhere near the same quality!

I actually preferred the 9835 over the annoying 9855 'glide touch' one.

4" speakers are actually ideal for rear fill. Even at fader on center , you shouldn't be able to hear them from the front - being such small drivers. It's 6x9's that are bad.

[Jakee]

 spark_38 said:

This is the sub I'm using: http://www.onlinecaraudio.co.nz/DD_LE308_Digital_Designs_8_Subwoofer_

It's quite good for a small 8" - in the car, it sounds like a much bigger sub, almost a 10"

I've just picked some of these up: http://www.onlinecaraudio.co.nz/Digital_Designs_DD_CS6_5

You won't find speakers for $200 that sound anywhere as good.

I love DD stuff.

[Timmah]

Can find those DD 6.5 components for $150 on TM From the same place too.

[calibre]

 spark_38 said:

I've just picked some of these up: http://www.onlinecaraudio.co.nz/Digital_Designs_DD_CS6_5

You won't find speakers for $200 that sound anywhere as good.

I agree! they are a bargain at $200. that's what I paid too, but yeah guy on Trademe i bought them off has them for $150 now!? amazing deal, they are really smooth and clear and handle well over 100 wrms easy, I have them in my wagon running off an Alpine X305s tuned with H100 Imprint module, on an Eclipse 4ch running fronts and sub and I think it sounds pretty awesome.

[johnny5]

Might look that sub up i like punch but also some down low which is why i favoured 12 inch but never tested the waters of anything under 10

Just one question does that a i have match my setup well I kinda just guessed my way through it at the shop when i purchsed everythng , might need upgrading soon to

[calibre]

 johnny5 said:

Just one question does that a i have match my setup well I kinda just guessed my way through it at the shop when i purchsed everythng , might need upgrading soon to

I take it you mean your amp? na man, that should have plenty of headroom for what you are doing, they are very nice amps.

While we are on the subject rather than start a new thread...anyone seen Dynamat or equivalent at a good price? just looking at doing my front doors to get the most out of the DD comps.

[Scoobydoo]

Best price I've seen is from Hyper Drive when they have their sales

[Eight_dollar]

Just buy a nice warfdale home entertainment set of speaker and chuck them in ya car. Sorted

[newsuba]

The good Wharfedales are too big to go into a car...

[boon]

 Eight dollar said:

Just buy a nice warfdale home entertainment set of speaker and chuck them in ya car. Sorted

Is no worky! Well no worky well...

They are designed to work in an enclosure, the driver is designed, particularly with regards to motor force and suspension compliance, to have pressure on the back of the cone from the box. 99% of car installations are functionally infinite baffle so car speakers are designed differently to cope with this.

(Unless you mean actually putting the speakers, box and all, in your car... in which case... LoL )

[calibre]

 Scoobydoo said:

Best price I've seen is from Hyper Drive when they have their sales

ahh sweet that's where I just ordered them from this afternoon. $39 for a 2 speaker ( 2x10" square) kit delivered, not too bad. Is it worth putting some behind the speaker on the door skin itself? anyone done this and know whether its worth expense/time?