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Project Kinder Surprise - engine build


Gripless
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What is this project?

Its an engine build with a discussion and details about options and trade offs building an engine. Hopefully heaps of photos and video. 

 

Why?

Because I couldn’t find the details I wanted online in one place and heaps of builds leave out the discussion on why they picked the parts and what flow on effects it makes.

Plus after @Joker posted about Facebook YouTube take over I saw a motor and it seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

Whats with the name?

It came for a PM from @PBMS as the base engine for this is a EJ207 W block with a suspected cracked piston that on one has looked at yet. Until it’s opened there’s no idea on what’s inside.

 

When does it start?

It started March 2019. 

 

Where is it?

it will be in this topic mostly and across Possum Bourne MS YouTube etc.

before the engine is assembled I hope to video in 4K all the parts and write up the reasoning behind each 

 

How long?

over the next few months

since the engine is a donor the cars stays on the road.

 

Whats the plan?

Build a great motor with well through your part selection. 

Everything is pretty much open to ideas as things are added to the list. 
 

Initial thoughts are:

- build it for around 800hp (was 600hp) and then street it about 500whp.

- Stay 2.0 as the cost of stroking it is higher and I can’t seem to own a car that won’t rev out to at least 8,000 rpm 

- CNC the heads since it isn’t that much

- Cams around 264 but has dual AVCS so maybe bigger, but needs to be streetable

- close deck maybe depends on block condition

 

 

 

Edited by Gripless
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The details will appear here and across YouTube and I’m guessing Facebook. 

 

I was going to add more in extra posts but needed to wait for a bit or it merges them all into one. 

 

 

So far the engine has been purchased and picked up.

 

The engine should come with everything including twin scroll headers and stock sti turbo. Plus some extras like a baffled sump and a twisted turbo adaptor.

 

So there will be a heap of stock parts to sell off.

 

 

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Interesting parts from Crawford who built the Subaru gymkhana cars.

 

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/impp-1103-subaru-ej-series-engine-tech/

 

Aftermarket water pump with a cast turbine that flows more water, whereas the OEM piece allows for water to bypass the blades and does not flow as much water.

Ok was going to replace anyway so will check what type the replacement is.

 

Another falsified fact is using a lower-temp thermostat will make your motor run cooler in hot weather but in reality it will have zero effect on increasing your engine's cooling capability.

Wasn’t considering this and won’t likely add it now.

 

People believe larger pressure/volume oil pumps are always better because the factory oiling system on the EJ motors are inadequate, when in fact, a high-pressure oil pump can cause oil cavitation while lowering the ability for any oiling system to work efficiently.

Heard this one a lot already.

 

Other falsified facts include tuners believing that installing 1mm oversized intake and/or exhaust valves over the stock size valve seats will increase cfm airflow

Ok that’s take that off the list. Plus I suspect it was going to add cost to pistons

 

and the best of all that makes me laugh every time I hear it is "you can make 500 whp safely on pump gas."

Hopefully this is American were gas is crap and more like 91.

 

For really high-horsepower applications, pinning the mains and oversized head studs and/or an O-ringed cylinder head may become necessary.”

Don’t think I’ll be getting to this point but depends on price.

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Join HP Academy if you want to build your engine properly or get a better understanding of how a performance/race engine should be built.Excellent modules take you through preparation,measuring,machining,clearances,balancing,blueprinting and assembly.

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Surprise 1

 

So the engine has been torn down. 

Results are good. Engine looks better than expected B|

No evidence of cracked piston or low compression that resulted in the engine removal and sale. 

 

So a set of STi rods and pistons will be for sale soon. 

 

Now the hard question

Should I sell the mint 2L crank and get a 2.5L crank or not?

The idea of a 2.2L has its appeal for obvious reasons GR-22-B

Edited by Gripless
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Update

 

Today...

 

talked to Kelford

Sounds like the 220-B are the cams to go for if sub 600hp but bordering on the 220-c. 

 

Dual AVCS make them very street friendly.

 

They have valve guides and seals along with spring option all available

 

 

And Horsepower heads 

agreed with fully ported heads the 220-B cams will support huge power. 

 

The exhaust port will be exiting at 40mm so need to address the headers size as likely only 32 or 36mm

this maybe within the ability to stretch the factory headers to smooth the exit. 

The dog leg port will flow close enough to the straight one to make no practical difference.

 

No change to the intake port outer shape so the TVG and manifold won’t need any work above the deletes and tidy up. 

 

the factory valve guides aren’t exactly great. But the ones in the new engine are worn so need replacement anyway. 

 

Inconel valves for exhaust are a recommended option to handle the high heat.

 

 

And an email from PBMS

looks like valve springs and billet crank are the best option for striker and keeping the current 8500rpm redline. Need to go have a proper chat about the range of options. 

 

 

 

Edited by Gripless
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This morning

 

Picked up the spare parts

- Worlds worst wastegate. Greasy mess with poor seals and shiny blue top.

- Vf49 stock turbo. Looks ok and no in/out play but told it not in good condition. May get it looked at later. 

- Stock STi headers which are 39mm so almost perfect for 40mm head work that’s coming. I have a set already so can just grind the existing ones a little and keep the ceramic coating intact. 

- Twinscroll up pipe 

- Twinscroll up pipe wastegate and twisted adaptor. Have to unbolt it and check it out. 

- Stock STi pistons std and just look dirty

- Stock STi rods clean and tidy

- Stock STi 75mm crank measures up std

- Stock dual AVCS STi cams

- Stock valve springs and retainers 

- 6 Speed flywheel

 

There is more like a clutch and the air pump valves and baffled sump that may be reused. 

 

Plus

Grabbed the TVG and intake manifold castings so I can grind them to flow more. 

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Update

 

Sounds like 13-14mm head studs are not worth the effort and haven’t been solving any gasket issues. So they are out and the 625 11mm ARP studs are about the best option so they should be on the list. 

 

Current plan is for:

79mm billet crank stroker to 2.13L

latest JE pistons that are coated and gas ported

Some rods to match

 

Random other things:

Seems the W motorsports block won’t even need closed decking for 600hp. So that is on the fence as the crank adds so much cost. 

 

Head gaskets need to be figured out as there are so newer options with copper “fire” rings that may help. 

 

 

 

Turbo is still a mystery option interested to hear what people think?

Looks like it will have to be rotated or low mounted so it can be big enough to make power. 

 

Also if any one has a parts list for all the seals etc you need for a rebuild that would be awesome...

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I'll be going for the Athena HG (fire ring) when I fit my dual avcs heads.

 

Turbo - I've always said if I was going for a completely new set up I'd go EFR as they have inbuilt WG & BOV so save the extra cost. With that in mind, they have the turbine wheel failure issue (especially on the smaller turbos which i'd be looking at) so need a speed sensor and some ecu smarts so it can't over speed.


Partsouq has a complete engine seal kit which could be worth looking into. When looking for the seals I need for the head swap I went onto ebay and found the "head gasket kits" which listed all the required parts, grabbed parts that suited. Someone on ebay might have a rebuild seal kit that you could copy.

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6 hours ago, pl0x said:

I'll be going for the Athena HG (fire ring) when I fit my dual avcs heads.


Partsouq has a complete engine seal kit which could be worth looking into. When looking for the seals I need for the head swap I went onto ebay and found the "head gasket kits" which listed all the required parts, grabbed parts that suited. Someone on ebay might have a rebuild seal kit that you could copy.

 Thanks for this...

 

I’d seen those Athena ones and they looked good and about the only 2.0L ones. 

Ok so these are just JE Pro Seal gaskets and sizes are limited. 

http://www.jeproseal.com/sport_compact.html

 

ebay only has the intake AVCS ones. 

Will have to try Subaru NZ to see if they are helpful. 

 

EFR looked nice but I’d block the BOV and run the GFB one still I think. 

Edited by Gripless
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So other than figuring out all the extras like injectors belts and bolts cost add up fast. 

Still not sure what the difference between $1000 and $600 injectors are when the are both the same cc and Bosch or denso. 

 

I started to clean up the intake manifold and discovered there are large casting marks just around the last bend for #4. 

Not just normal seam castings but a 1-2mm raises 10mm diameter circle. 

Carbides and sanding pads don’t reach. 

#2 also has one but it not right on the start of the curve. 

 

Also it looks like since the #4 runner is so low and flat it gets to collect the most oil that gets into the intake. 

 

The manifold is also 4mm smaller diameter than the TVG’s so much more grinding to do. 

Just have to make sure it’s all lined up. 

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16 hours ago, Gripless said:

So other than figuring out all the extras like injectors belts and bolts cost add up fast. 

Still not sure what the difference between $1000 and $600 injectors are when the are both the same cc and Bosch or denso. 

 

I started to clean up the intake manifold and discovered there are large casting marks just around the last bend for #4. 

Not just normal seam castings but a 1-2mm raises 10mm diameter circle. 

Carbides and sanding pads don’t reach. 

#2 also has one but it not right on the start of the curve. 

 

Also it looks like since the #4 runner is so low and flat it gets to collect the most oil that gets into the intake. 

 

The manifold is also 4mm smaller diameter than the TVG’s so much more grinding to do. 

Just have to make sure it’s all lined up. 

 

So, heres a bit of information that I'm aware of in regards to injectors. 

 

Injector Dynamics command a much heftier price because of the following: 

All your injectors are matched to very close similar specs. For example, my set of ID1300x2's all flow 1331cc each. Meanwhile a factory set of bosch or potentially other companies may vary by a few cc to 10 or 20. Depends on their quality control and matching.

ID use proprietary internals and nozzles for their injectors (at least going off their videos and marketing guff), which they claim is superior. 

 

The likes of FIC etc may have different processes but from my understanding their matching and nozzles and internals of the injectors while aren't bad, are more in lines of the factory item they're modified from. So matching might not be as close as what you'd get from ID. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dairusire said:

Meanwhile a factory set of bosch or potentially other companies may vary by a few cc to 10 or 20. Depends on their quality control and matching.

ID use proprietary internals and nozzles for their injectors (at least going off their videos and marketing guff), which they claim is superior. 

 

The likes of FIC etc may have different processes but from my understanding their matching and nozzles and internals of the injectors while aren't bad, are more in lines of the factory item they're modified from. So matching might not be as close as what you'd get from ID. 

 

 

My understanding was they brought in bulk then just matched them up into smaller sets. Some companies do flow others flow and dead time. 

 

Other thing is the factory plug is denso so that would save having an adaptor cable added to the mix. 

 

ID also use fancy alloy extension but others are plastic like the injector 

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Fuel Injector Clinic FIC has 1200cc injectors that are all 1-2% matched sets. 

450whp E85

650whp pump gas

USD$540

 

They say idle and street driving is fine until you go past the 1650cc set which does. 

580whp E85

780whp pump gas

USD$840

 

Bonus they have spreadsheets for the stock ecu for reflashing. 

 

 

http://fuelinjectorclinic.com/wrx-stilate

 

How they match sets

 

Edited by Gripless
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While looking for more details on the stock manifold to see if there are any good things to do found these bits:

 

Just porting the last section before the TVG section gives at least 5% flow gain at the valve opening on a flow bench. This could be more with the CNC head porting. 

 

There are place that port port the throttle body 2mm to 62mm and cut the rod in half to increase flow. 

I’m keen to cut most of the bar out and smooth the opening out. But the opening depends on the final intake pipe. No point making the mouth bigger than the pipe leading in.

ive done this before on NA cars for good gains from 60mm to 63mm with half the bar cut away. 

 

Plus I messed up a long handled spoon to make it reach around the manifold bends to sand off the bumps. 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

After getting costing and mapping turbo spool and flow it seems the stroker is almost pointless and costs an additional $3200. Plus reduces the redline potential so it seems the engine is 2.0L again. 

 

Heads should be heading down to horsepower heads for the CNC next/this week. With new bronze magnesium guides fitted since they will be removed for porting and the current ones are a bit worn. 

If I get some time I’ll get video of the before and then some after. 

 

On the valve front if there is any Easter sales 1mm oversized valves may find the way in. These are needed but since most places don’t stock or sell the stock size inconel exhaust or undercut stems intake. 

Tomei have a full set and some of their stuff is just cosworth built. 

 

JE newest Ultra pistons have been ordered. 

 

 

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Still have to pick valve springs as the titanium retainers I have work with most springs.  Manley seem to be the cheapest and good to 10k rpm limit. 

 

Thinking that the buckets must add more weight to the Subaru valve train. 

 

Have to add new valve keepers as well so adds $100usd more. 

 

Cobb map sensor looks to be plug and play so can hit the 30-32 psi planned boost limit. 

 

 

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